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Colin L
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Post by Colin L » Mon 29 Oct 2007 14:33

PaddyFrog wrote: How many thousands die in the UK because of lack of Medical Care,

10, 15, 20 thousand or more.
What's the evidence for this remarkable statistic?


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john
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Post by john » Mon 29 Oct 2007 17:39

Colin L wrote:
PaddyFrog wrote: How many thousands die in the UK because of lack of Medical Care,

10, 15, 20 thousand or more.
What's the evidence for this remarkable statistic?
I assume it's a slip of the keyboard,Colin. What,presumably he meant to say is "how many in the US.....etc?"

There's plenty of evidence for that......

outie

Post by outie » Mon 29 Oct 2007 19:11

Let Pfrog speak for himself john.

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Post by john » Tue 30 Oct 2007 08:11

outie wrote:Let Pfrog speak for himself john.
Outie, I do not tell you when you should or shouldn't post.

Please afford me the same courtesy.

outie

Post by outie » Tue 30 Oct 2007 09:16

Sure thing.

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opas
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Post by opas » Tue 30 Oct 2007 13:39

This was a serious thread, I am suprised that some posters have taken it down this route.

Surely it does not matter to any of us in a personal sense what the health care is like in USA ,Spain or Tymbuktoo for that matter.
We actually need facts about what is happening in France at the moment!

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Kate
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Post by Kate » Tue 30 Oct 2007 18:11

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Hear, hear!

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Post by john » Tue 30 Oct 2007 18:23

I'd agree wholeheartedly with that,in principal,Kate and opas. But the problem,as you've both independently found out,is that it doesn't appear ,on the face of it,that even the French Health Authorities know the "facts as to what is happening in France at the moment"!!!

I think that once this was obvious,the thread moved on as to ,in the worst case scenario,what we can ,as a group, do to help things move as painlessly as possible.To that end,I'd say how other people in other countries who've already faced this situation fare is EXTREMELY relevant.

Lewis Gunn

Post by Lewis Gunn » Tue 30 Oct 2007 21:21

Despite all that has been written I still don’t see what the fuss is all about.

We became more or less permanently resident in France before either I, or Mrs G, reached state retirement age. It was generally accepted that we were on our own as far as healthcare was concerned.

One option was to find employment, thus getting onto the system. Quite a few Brits did just that. Otherwise it was simply a question of adopting a suitable strategy to cover all eventualities. If that strategy included getting healthcare by the back door – good luck! But don’t complain if the privilege is withdrawn.

We are expected to be available for work, or be supported by someone who is available for work, until we reach pensionable age. Forget European law, EU Directives and all the rest of the legal morass. The fact that the UK is very lax in the way it treats claimants is no justification for complaining about how we are treated in France. Should we choose, voluntarily, to withdraw from the labour market then surely it is our personal responsibility to take care of ourselves.

As the man said “If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen.”

LG

PS I heartily agree with the comments about the way this thread was diverted and trivialised. This a problem found by many forums. Maybe it is time for Kate to adopt the separation of topics into serious and trivial. I can expand on this subject if required.

outie

Post by outie » Tue 30 Oct 2007 21:57

We became more or less permanently resident in France
Why where you not sure.

But don’t complain if the privilege is withdrawn
It was a right,and to this date as we speak still is.

Maybe it is time for Kate to adopt the separation of topics into serious and trivial. I can expand on this subject if required.


What you or I find might trivial or even serious is open to being subjective so do please expand.Health care is serious but as for now no one can say 100% what is going to happen.

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Post by Kate » Wed 31 Oct 2007 08:23

Maybe it is time for Kate to adopt the separation of topics into serious and trivial. I can expand on this subject if required.

Both myself and the forum are particularly lucky to have VH at the helm where sorting out the wheat from the chaff is concerned. He is neutral, tolerant, unjudgmental, has an excellent sense of humour, and holds, like myself, the opinion that as long as it it is not harmful, insulting, threatening etc, everyone has the right to post how they wish. Sometimes a thread, like life, digresses or degenerates into a bit of a slanging match or light hearted 'irrelevant' banter. I don't think we could claim to compete with the real information forums as we don't have the expertise so maybe we are better remaining light hearted and friendly and not pretending to be what we are not. Some forums have bankers, doctors, insurers.... on hand waiting to give expert advice and answer any questions (and direct members to a particular service for which they receive commission) We don't get anything from anyone so we don't need to be constantly checking on the 'seriousness factor' to keep the bucks rolling in!! Having said that, Colin does have a regular 'pluck' where he pulls out items preventing a thread from making sense or developing further - he is just very 'subtile'! (dont know how to spell it in English!!)

For me personally, and I know that not everyone agrees but that's fine, A-D forum has a nice mix of friendly, silly, fun, sometimes completely off-track, occasionally bloody minded members but with the knowledge that when a serious question is asked there are people who leap right in there toot sweet and do their very best, from a non specialist point of view, to help out.

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Post by opas » Wed 31 Oct 2007 09:35

Mr Gunn....We too filled the criteria 4 years ago. We had to go the CdS route as it was still the law then. I also found a job, doing about the same hours as I worked in UK.

My problem now is that the goal posts have shifted.........According to the so called new rules I should work more hours.

If the UK put this kind of retrospective ruling into place about a certain creed/race /nationallity...call it what you will, there would be an all out riot.

If the rules are to change it should NOT be backdated!

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sue and paul
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Post by sue and paul » Wed 31 Oct 2007 09:49

I don't think the new ruling re healthcare is aimed at any single group.

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Post by john » Wed 31 Oct 2007 10:06

opas wrote:Mr Gunn....We too filled the criteria 4 years ago. We had to go the CdS route as it was still the law then. I also found a job, doing about the same hours as I worked in UK.

My problem now is that the goal posts have shifted.........According to the so called new rules I should work more hours.

If the UK put this kind of retrospective ruling into place about a certain creed/race /nationallity...call it what you will, there would be an all out riot.

If the rules are to change it should NOT be backdated!
Absolutely right opas.The point that L Gunn (and others) are missing is that most of us came here,safe in the knowledge that when our E106 was up we could pay to join the Fr Health system. Now we can't.We knew it was not going to be a cost free option,so comments about "standing the heat of the kitchen" are inaccurate and unhelpful.Whether he likes it or not,as opas says,the goalposts have been moved.A lot.

As regards Kate's comments about thread changes,this is a hoary old chestnut that rears its ugly head from time to time. The AD forum is a living one,not just a fixed "info" site.Threads DO develop,and that is what is so good about it.VH only very occasionally has to wield the censor's scissors.

For those who require pure "dry" info on any topic,as Kate says there are plenty of sites that afford that facility.What would the point be of us becoming another "me-too" of them? A lot of good ,useful points have been made ,and info gained ,over the course of "thread developments" over the years.

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Post by opas » Wed 31 Oct 2007 11:15

The silly thing is that none of us yet know who will be affected, I have not received anything to tell me I will be kicked out of the system and I have not any personal knowledge of anyone who has. If and its a big IF,as we have both contributed to the system here, it does affect us, then I do not see us getting private cover easily........we have a daughter with 100% long term illness due for a major operation in the month following the deadline(31/03/2008)

Now anyone out there who thinks they are sitting pretty as they KNOW these changes won`t affect them, well perhaps you had better think again ,as who knows what changes could be made next? compulory working untill you are seventy ! Or anyone seen driving a Brit plated car must prove where they are not a resident in France.

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Post by PaddyFrog » Thu 01 Nov 2007 00:46

removed by PF :(
Last edited by PaddyFrog on Mon 20 Jun 2011 15:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by john » Thu 01 Nov 2007 09:00

Useful info this PF.Thanks for it.

As regards your first query(re UK reg cars);

Well presumably you have been here some time,and clearly do not go round with your eyes shut.In which case you will know that there indeed ARE many folk who live here "definitivement" and drive round in cars with UK plates.They are not alone .I personally know at least 4 Germans and twoBelgians who drive round all the time in "D" and "B" plated cars.As to how they get insurance,well that's anyone's guess. My(scary) belief is that they don't have any.

I don't want to start the "discussion " up again,but to my mind the Fr authorities would be far better employed knocking this sort of abuse on the head,than removing our Cartes Vitales.

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Post by opas » Thu 01 Nov 2007 09:26

Just to get back to the CV issue, I have an attestation that says my healthcare is valid until next november (my CMU contrbution) but it doesn`t mean that it cannot be revoked/altered, Infact the more I read on other forums (one of whome has set up their own website purely for this information) the more I worry about what could happen.(I will pass this website onto anyone who wants to take a look for themselves) Mydaughters 100% also runs out early next year and a medical will be required to renew that, I know she can have her op and we can and will pay for it IF push comes to shove, but I would have to put outie to work every minute of the day to just pay her post op accessories bill alone!

To the UK car issue, one or two of our members on here that I know of have been here years and still drive around in thei Brit Plated cars and seem proud to do so.

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Post by Roger O » Thu 01 Nov 2007 10:32

When we moved to France, I had 6 months grace*** to return my Zürich number plates (Number plates in Switzerland are issued to the person holding the driving license, not to the car! Change the car, move your number plates onto the new car! If you own more than one car, they will both have the same number - yours!)

***I was told this at an interview at the Einwohneramt ("population control office") of the local town hall, as well as "lectured" on the fact that, as a C-(permanent residence/work) permit holder - which it had taken me 5 years to obtain, even with a Swiss wife at that time, being a foreign national, I would be able to return and live/work in Switzerland only up to 6 months after having the crazy temerity to emigrate from (perfect) Switzerland to go and live in (decadent) France of all places!!

We moved to the Côte d'Azur 01 October 1994 and at that time had to go through the whole idiocy of the Service des Mines etc etc etc to have the car reregistered in France - which finally happened in June 1995! This meant that I was illegally driving in France on ZH plates for 3 months, during which time the Swiss authorities had issued an edict to detain me if I ever showed up on the Swiss border with those number plates and confiscate the car - and me!!!

Fortunately, I sorted that out with our Swiss insurance guy and returned the plates to him by registered mail to have the edict removed!

Is there no law in the UK (how should I know?) which prohibits British citizens from driving a UK registered car after a certain grace period, having permanently emigrated as resident to another country??

Of course, from the point of view of health care, having worked 9 years in France up to retirement at 65 after 47 provable years of "cotisations" in the UK, Switzerland and France, I have the same rights to health care as a French citizen (as I have been told by the local CPAM) - so no worries there. However, I carried over my mutuel from Amadeus which pays up to 100% on practically everything for the whole family, including dentist, but still costs me nearly 300 euros per month for the "privilege"!

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Post by opas » Thu 01 Nov 2007 13:26

So do you nip back to the UK each year for your MOT and buy a Tax disk?

no thought not!

If you have a UK registered car and need more infor on why it should be "IMPORTED" let me know......I know a man who can give you chapter and verse on why you should "import" said car.

reverse the situation and put a French guy with his car in Manchester.....he pays no road tax, YOU DO, he doesn`t have a MOT , YOU DO.......

Who insures your car? and do they know your situation?

Healthcare ......cars ....I supose they are conected, If someone needs healthcare after an accident with a car that has a dodgy background!

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Post by john » Thu 01 Nov 2007 17:23

Roger O wrote:Is there no law in the UK (how should I know?) which prohibits British citizens from driving a UK registered car after a certain grace period, having permanently emigrated as resident to another country??

"!
Of course there is a law Roger.If you drive abroad beyomd the permitted period,and use a false address,your insurance is invalid,nul and void,non-existant,call it what you will.

It is against the law to drive an uninsured car(both under UK and Fr law).

There's your answer.

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Post by PaddyFrog » Thu 01 Nov 2007 19:15

removed by PF :(
Last edited by PaddyFrog on Mon 20 Jun 2011 15:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by john » Fri 02 Nov 2007 08:41

Perhaps I should take her other half's advice and let her "speak for herself",but I rather think you've got hold of the wrong end of the stick here PaddyFrog.

I do not think that opas is advocating driving round in an untaxed,uninsured Brit car.Quite the opposite in fact.What I read into he comments is that she knows several people (as do I ) that have not "legalised "their vehicles by putting F plates on,had a CT etc,and fully supports the recent "purge" that has been instigated by the Gendarmes to stamp this practice out.

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Post by opas » Fri 02 Nov 2007 08:45

Paddyfrog, Did you find a secret stash of poppies to sniff when you read my post :oops: You must read it again...either that or I shall re write it!

Of course I am worried about the health situation, until any of us has a clear cut case for healthcare ie Married to a french person or a french citizen we have to think of what may happen!

As to the car issue, I do not condone driving a UK plated car in france as a lot of folks seem to do. I do not see any reason to do so and like you wonder how their insurance would work if there was an accident.

I drive a RHD car.........but it has been re registered, it costs me less in MOT fees, no road fund licence and the insurance is about the same....Oh and it is so easy to do!

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Post by PaddyFrog » Fri 02 Nov 2007 11:39

removed by PF :(
Last edited by PaddyFrog on Mon 20 Jun 2011 15:37, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by vieux hibou » Fri 02 Nov 2007 12:38

This is getting a bit heavy, Paddy Frog, and I think you have misunderstood Opas. In any case. in the interest of love and harmony in the forum this line of discussion might be best left at that.

I am struggling to see how to bring together the bits of various threads on Health into a single easy read. Perhaps another try after a glass of wine? :wink:
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outie

Post by outie » Fri 02 Nov 2007 14:08

Pfrog,get a life.............

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Post by PaddyFrog » Fri 02 Nov 2007 14:24

removed by PF :(
Last edited by PaddyFrog on Mon 20 Jun 2011 15:36, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by opas » Fri 02 Nov 2007 14:45

Opus might , but OpAs is taking time out!


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