Grammar Gurus part 2
Moderator: Moderators
- Santiago
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Tue 27 Dec 2005 12:19
- Contact:
Grammar Gurus part 2
To print out and keep ....
and I would add
Should've = Should have
Would've = Would have
Should of = 0
Would of = 0
and I would add
Should've = Should have
Would've = Would have
Should of = 0
Would of = 0
Last edited by Santiago on Wed 26 Jun 2013 09:58, edited 1 time in total.
Domaine Treloar - Vineyard and Winery - www.domainetreloar.com - 04 68 95 02 29
- blackduff
- Rank 5
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Sat 30 Dec 2006 11:32
- Contact:
- russell
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1038
- Joined: Fri 21 May 2010 16:03
- Contact:
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 364
- Joined: Mon 17 May 2010 19:06
- Contact:
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Thu 07 Dec 2006 22:23
- Contact:
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: Tue 01 Sep 2009 21:21
- Contact:
- Sue
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Tue 02 Dec 2008 15:08
- Contact:
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2006 01:49
- Contact:
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: Tue 01 Sep 2009 21:21
- Contact:
You might not accept it as meaninful but you are out of step with most of the english speaking world that regards it as a polite form of 'I want'.Owens88 wrote:I do not really accept 'I would like' as meaningful (and yes I do know the underlying grammar). It always reminds me of half-heartedness e.g. 'planning to get engaged'.
What's wrong with 'planning to get engaged'? A lot of people regard getting engaged as being an event to celebrate not simply a change of status.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2006 01:49
- Contact:
-
- Rank 4
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Thu 21 Mar 2013 13:41
- Contact:
Can I is a less formal way of asking for permission than May I.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/can-or-may
http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/can-or-may
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: Tue 01 Sep 2009 21:21
- Contact:
But only in the context of asking permission.Pearsonb wrote:Can I is a less formal way of asking for permission than May I.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/can-or-may
Take the 2 questions
Can he speak French? May he speak French?
They have entirely different meanings.
It's interesting, I found several online dictionaries with articles on this subject, they all contradicted the view expressed in the one you quoted. It just goes to show that language is constantly evolving and the rules are open to interpretation. Fortunately we all understand the question, whether can or may is used.
Most people regard the Oxford English Dictionary (not the Oxford Dictionary) as the definitive reference. - anyone got a copy?
-
- Rank 4
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Thu 21 Mar 2013 13:41
- Contact:
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2006 01:49
- Contact:
http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/115287
I confess that I did not believe pearsonb, sorry. However...
'... 4. Expressing ability or power; be able, can. Obs. ....'
Oh, if I told them, my kids would wish that they had known that when their assistant headmistress was correcting them.
I confess that I did not believe pearsonb, sorry. However...
'... 4. Expressing ability or power; be able, can. Obs. ....'
Oh, if I told them, my kids would wish that they had known that when their assistant headmistress was correcting them.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: Tue 01 Sep 2009 21:21
- Contact:
Actually they are not :-Pearsonb wrote:Oxford Dictionaries and OED are the same thing
This site (www.oxforddictionaries.com) is not the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). You’ll find the OED at www.oed.com. You’ll need a subscription to use the OED fully. You may be able to use the OED at home through your local public library: ask your librarian for information.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/the ... dictionary
-
- Rank 4
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Thu 21 Mar 2013 13:41
- Contact:
- russell
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1038
- Joined: Fri 21 May 2010 16:03
- Contact:
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2006 01:49
- Contact:
Russell
Again I remain nonplussed. I believe that Je voudrais is the conditional 'I would like' and I am told it is used as the polite way of saying 'gimme'.
I have just never heard it used by the French.
Another way of regarding the conditional is the 'hypothetical future' hence my earlier playfulness saying that 'I would like' is half-hearted.
Cheers
Again I remain nonplussed. I believe that Je voudrais is the conditional 'I would like' and I am told it is used as the polite way of saying 'gimme'.
I have just never heard it used by the French.
Another way of regarding the conditional is the 'hypothetical future' hence my earlier playfulness saying that 'I would like' is half-hearted.
Cheers
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Thu 07 Dec 2006 22:23
- Contact:
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2006 01:49
- Contact:
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Thu 07 Dec 2006 22:23
- Contact:
[quote="Pearsonb"]Can I is a less formal way of asking for permission than May I.
I disagree.
"Can I swim in your pool?" means "Do I know how to/ Am I capable swim..." (in your pool or elsewhere)
"May I swim in your pool?" - "Do I have your permission to swim in your pool?"
See my post on page1. Robert wanted to go into the British Museum near closing time, & he asked the doorkeeper "Can I go in?" The doorkeeper answered "You can....." (i.e. the door is still open & you're physically capable of walking in ) "but you may not" (i.e. I make the rules here and I'm not going to let you in ).
Helen
I disagree.
"Can I swim in your pool?" means "Do I know how to/ Am I capable swim..." (in your pool or elsewhere)
"May I swim in your pool?" - "Do I have your permission to swim in your pool?"
See my post on page1. Robert wanted to go into the British Museum near closing time, & he asked the doorkeeper "Can I go in?" The doorkeeper answered "You can....." (i.e. the door is still open & you're physically capable of walking in ) "but you may not" (i.e. I make the rules here and I'm not going to let you in ).
Helen
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 340
- Joined: Fri 12 Oct 2007 11:29
- Contact:
I am a former teacher of English but I try not to be pedantic and to accept that language evolves. I used to teach my pupils the usual mantra - 'Can I?' means 'Am I capable?' and 'May I?' means 'Am I permitted', but I now accept that they are interchangeable.
And when asked 'Who is it?' in answer to my knock, I say 'It's me' although I know the verb 'to be' takes a nominative complement.
And when asked 'Who is it?' in answer to my knock, I say 'It's me' although I know the verb 'to be' takes a nominative complement.
-
- Rank 4
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Thu 21 Mar 2013 13:41
- Contact:
I've already quoted the Oxford dictionary. Some people argue that Webster's is more authorative. This is what is written there.
Can and may are most frequently interchangeable in senses denoting possibility; because the possibility of one's doing something may depend on another's acquiescence, they have also become interchangeable in the sense denoting permission. The use of can to ask or grant permission has been common since the 19th century and is well established, although some commentators feel may is more appropriate in formal contexts. May is relatively rare in negative constructions (mayn't is not common); cannot and can't are usual in such contexts.
Can and may are most frequently interchangeable in senses denoting possibility; because the possibility of one's doing something may depend on another's acquiescence, they have also become interchangeable in the sense denoting permission. The use of can to ask or grant permission has been common since the 19th century and is well established, although some commentators feel may is more appropriate in formal contexts. May is relatively rare in negative constructions (mayn't is not common); cannot and can't are usual in such contexts.
- opas
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Thu 13 Jul 2006 09:31
- Contact:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lants.html
That headline, I am doubting myself now, should it read ' their poisonous' or they're poisonous?
On first reading the headline it did not make sense......
That headline, I am doubting myself now, should it read ' their poisonous' or they're poisonous?
On first reading the headline it did not make sense......
-----------------------------------------------
Debeneur.
property management, changeovers, garden maintenance, no job too small. Highchair, travelcot, pram hire.
Debeneur.
property management, changeovers, garden maintenance, no job too small. Highchair, travelcot, pram hire.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: Tue 01 Sep 2009 21:21
- Contact:
I don't understand your confusion, the headline is perfectly correct as it is.opas wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lants.html
That headline, I am doubting myself now, should it read ' their poisonous' or they're poisonous?
On first reading the headline it did not make sense......
It couldn't possible be their as that would denote possession.
- opas
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Thu 13 Jul 2006 09:31
- Contact:
That is exactly my confusion.
Should it read that children re afraid of veg in case their poisonous.. as the daily mail have written.....I do not think it should.
Should it read that children re afraid of veg in case their poisonous.. as the daily mail have written.....I do not think it should.
-----------------------------------------------
Debeneur.
property management, changeovers, garden maintenance, no job too small. Highchair, travelcot, pram hire.
Debeneur.
property management, changeovers, garden maintenance, no job too small. Highchair, travelcot, pram hire.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: Tue 01 Sep 2009 21:21
- Contact:
Sorry I still don't get the confusion.opas wrote:That is exactly my confusion.
Should it read that children re afraid of veg in case their poisonous.. as the daily mail have written.....I do not think it should.
It reads that Children do not eat their greens (greens belonging to the children) because they (the children) are genetically programmed to avoid plants in case they (the plants) are poisonous
- opas
- Rank 5
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Thu 13 Jul 2006 09:31
- Contact:
Ah, now it reads correctly!
When I posted this it actually said.......are genetically programmed to avoid plants in case their poisonous..
So the paper have obviously corrected themselves.
When I posted this it actually said.......are genetically programmed to avoid plants in case their poisonous..
So the paper have obviously corrected themselves.
-----------------------------------------------
Debeneur.
property management, changeovers, garden maintenance, no job too small. Highchair, travelcot, pram hire.
Debeneur.
property management, changeovers, garden maintenance, no job too small. Highchair, travelcot, pram hire.