Grammar Gurus part 2

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Santiago
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Grammar Gurus part 2

Post by Santiago »

To print out and keep ....

Image

and I would add

Should've = Should have
Would've = Would have

Should of = 0
Would of = 0
Last edited by Santiago on Wed 26 Jun 2013 09:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Kate
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Post by Kate »

:lol: :lol:
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Post by blackduff »

Kate wrote::lol: :lol:
Kate
Were your :lol: :lol: supposed to be Should have or Would have or maybe Could have.

Grammar is getting complicated.

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Post by russell »

omg it's andaz :)

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Post by tia »

always wondered , what is the difference between saying can I have and may I have?
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Post by Robert Ferrieux »

Pithy explanation:
When he was a student in London, Robert wanted to visit the British Museum. It was just before closing time and Rob asked the doorkeeper "Can I go in?"
The doorkeeper replied scornfully, "You can but you may not"..
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Post by tia »

thanks helen.
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Post by Allan »

'Can I' means 'am I able'
'may I' means 'am I permitted'
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Post by Sue »

I always thought can I was the impolite way of asking for something and may I the polite way. A bit like I want or I would like!
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Post by Owens88 »

I do not really accept 'I would like' as meaningful (and yes I do know the underlying grammar). It always reminds me of half-heartedness e.g. 'planning to get engaged'.
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Post by Allan »

Owens88 wrote:I do not really accept 'I would like' as meaningful (and yes I do know the underlying grammar). It always reminds me of half-heartedness e.g. 'planning to get engaged'.
You might not accept it as meaninful but you are out of step with most of the english speaking world that regards it as a polite form of 'I want'.

What's wrong with 'planning to get engaged'? A lot of people regard getting engaged as being an event to celebrate not simply a change of status.
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Post by Owens88 »

Allan I was being playful. But for the record I love it that you are a stickler for grammar to correct me on one thing then accept a travesty of language to correct me on another.
But the world is a big place and there is plenty of room for us all.

:)
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Post by Pearsonb »

Can I is a less formal way of asking for permission than May I.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/can-or-may
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Post by Allan »

Pearsonb wrote:Can I is a less formal way of asking for permission than May I.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/can-or-may
But only in the context of asking permission.

Take the 2 questions

Can he speak French? May he speak French?
They have entirely different meanings.

It's interesting, I found several online dictionaries with articles on this subject, they all contradicted the view expressed in the one you quoted. It just goes to show that language is constantly evolving and the rules are open to interpretation. Fortunately we all understand the question, whether can or may is used.

Most people regard the Oxford English Dictionary (not the Oxford Dictionary) as the definitive reference. - anyone got a copy?
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Post by Pearsonb »

Oxford Dictionaries and OED are the same thing :-)
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Post by Owens88 »

http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/115287

I confess that I did not believe pearsonb, sorry. However...

'... 4. Expressing ability or power; be able, can. Obs. ....'

Oh, if I told them, my kids would wish that they had known that when their assistant headmistress was correcting them.
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Post by Allan »

Pearsonb wrote:Oxford Dictionaries and OED are the same thing :-)
Actually they are not :-

This site (www.oxforddictionaries.com) is not the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). You’ll find the OED at www.oed.com. You’ll need a subscription to use the OED fully. You may be able to use the OED at home through your local public library: ask your librarian for information.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/the ... dictionary
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Post by Pearsonb »

You ate splitting hairs. They are both part of the OUP group. The articles in that site are written by OED staff.

But who cares? It is only a forum. I will always appreciate the help you have given me in the geek forum.

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Post by russell »

O.K. How about "je veux" vs. "je voudrais"?

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Post by Owens88 »

Russell

Again I remain nonplussed. I believe that Je voudrais is the conditional 'I would like' and I am told it is used as the polite way of saying 'gimme'.
I have just never heard it used by the French.

Another way of regarding the conditional is the 'hypothetical future' hence my earlier playfulness saying that 'I would like' is half-hearted.

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Post by Robert Ferrieux »

"Je voudrais t'embrasser mais tu as un herpès aux lèvres..........."

"I 'd like to kiss you but you've got a cold sore." (so presumably I shall not...in fact I definitely WILL not!"

"Je veux t'embrasser"....I wanna kiss your hot lips PDQ & ASAP :wink:

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Post by Owens88 »

Helen
Thanks, yes that is the conditional which I understand.
I just don't see that it is more 'polite' to use the conditional, it is a different sense.

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Post by Robert Ferrieux »

[quote="Pearsonb"]Can I is a less formal way of asking for permission than May I.


I disagree.
"Can I swim in your pool?" means "Do I know how to/ Am I capable swim..." (in your pool or elsewhere)
"May I swim in your pool?" - "Do I have your permission to swim in your pool?"

See my post on page1. Robert wanted to go into the British Museum near closing time, & he asked the doorkeeper "Can I go in?" The doorkeeper answered "You can....." (i.e. the door is still open & you're physically capable of walking in ) "but you may not" (i.e. I make the rules here and I'm not going to let you in ).

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Post by carol sheridan »

I am a former teacher of English but I try not to be pedantic and to accept that language evolves. I used to teach my pupils the usual mantra - 'Can I?' means 'Am I capable?' and 'May I?' means 'Am I permitted', but I now accept that they are interchangeable.
And when asked 'Who is it?' in answer to my knock, I say 'It's me' although I know the verb 'to be' takes a nominative complement.
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Post by Pearsonb »

I've already quoted the Oxford dictionary. Some people argue that Webster's is more authorative. This is what is written there.

Can and may are most frequently interchangeable in senses denoting possibility; because the possibility of one's doing something may depend on another's acquiescence, they have also become interchangeable in the sense denoting permission. The use of can to ask or grant permission has been common since the 19th century and is well established, although some commentators feel may is more appropriate in formal contexts. May is relatively rare in negative constructions (mayn't is not common); cannot and can't are usual in such contexts.
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Post by opas »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lants.html

That headline, I am doubting myself now, should it read ' their poisonous' or they're poisonous?

On first reading the headline it did not make sense......
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Post by Allan »

opas wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lants.html

That headline, I am doubting myself now, should it read ' their poisonous' or they're poisonous?

On first reading the headline it did not make sense......
I don't understand your confusion, the headline is perfectly correct as it is.

It couldn't possible be their as that would denote possession.
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Post by opas »

That is exactly my confusion.


Should it read that children re afraid of veg in case their poisonous.. as the daily mail have written.....I do not think it should.
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Post by Allan »

opas wrote:That is exactly my confusion.


Should it read that children re afraid of veg in case their poisonous.. as the daily mail have written.....I do not think it should.
Sorry I still don't get the confusion.

It reads that Children do not eat their greens (greens belonging to the children) because they (the children) are genetically programmed to avoid plants in case they (the plants) are poisonous
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Post by opas »

Ah, now it reads correctly!

When I posted this it actually said.......are genetically programmed to avoid plants in case their poisonous..

So the paper have obviously corrected themselves.
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