Titre de séjour post Brexit

A subject that is very close to the hearts of the many British that have made a home, either primary or secondary, in France or elsewhere in Europe.
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rorymerry
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Titre de séjour post Brexit

Post by rorymerry »

Hello all,
Today I had the "pleasure" of visiting the préfecture de Perpignan to complete my request to remain in France post Brexit. I've been living and working in France since 2015 and this is the first time I've made an application for a "carte de séjour". At the préfecture they took a copy of my passport plus 2 photos for the ID card (validity 5 years) that I'll receive in around 6-8 weeks. My question is the following : as I've been resident in France for the last 5-6 years, but have never possessed a carte de séjour, was it the case before that just being an EU citizen was enough to come and live and work in France? I'm assuming it was, as no one has ever questioned my status here. I've been resident in France since 2015, I pay taxes, I have a carte vitale, etc. or perhaps my first employer made an application on my behalf for me to be able to live and work long-term in France. If anyone can shed any light on this topic, I'd be grateful.
Pighunter
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Re: Titre de séjour post Brexit

Post by Pighunter »

Well done, I still have yet to hear anything from them.

As your title suggests this is only necessary as a result of Brexit, EU citizens have the right to move around the EU freely.
Ted & Jemima
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Re: Titre de séjour post Brexit

Post by Ted & Jemima »

.... which is why the UK is the laughing stock of the world after millions of its people voted to have their existing rights to work/live within their own continent TAKEN AWAY from them, not temporarily but forever, for their children, grandchildren and future generations.

Yours,
Ted & Jemima
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GrahamC
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Re: Titre de séjour post Brexit

Post by GrahamC »

But did regain the right for themselves and their grandchildren to vote for, or remove, the people who make the laws they have to abide by, and did regain a system of governance in which the executive, judiciary and legislature are separated.

In doing so it also removed itself from an hegemonic entity that only obeys international law when it suits it.

But, hey, let’s have a separate thread about this, if you must. This one’s about the Titre de Sejour.
Ted & Jemima
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Re: Titre de séjour post Brexit

Post by Ted & Jemima »

Hi GrahamC

The question was: "was it the case before that just being an EU citizen was enough to come and live and work in France?"

We addressed the question. Your comment apparently did not. If you feel the need for a "separate thread", go ahead.

Yours,
Ted & Jemima
Daphne
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Re: Titre de séjour post Brexit

Post by Daphne »

Hello, I am in a similar situation never having had a carte séjour. When did you apply? I applied on line with a scan of Passport, EDF bill and the Diplomatic card which replaced carte sejour.. I received an acknowledgement from them but haven't had an invitation to go to the Prefet for fingerprints! Regards;
mrrolight
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Re: Titre de séjour post Brexit

Post by mrrolight »

Hi GrahamC,

I’m confused. Hope with your help we can clear up a couple of things.

Firstly, a voter in the UK votes for their MP. They do not get "to vote for, or remove” 649 of the 650 MPs "who make the laws they have to abide by”. Neither do they elect the civil servants and Special Advisors (Dominic Cummings, Alistair Campbell etc.) who have far more influence in guiding policy than 99% of MPs. Then there’s the unelected House of Lords. And the First Past The Post voting system, which means the UK currently has a government that 60% of the electorate voted against; anathema to many in Europe. And none of this was inflicted by the EU or remedied by Brexit.

I am not complaining about the vagaries of the system. I am just highlighting that Britain, like the EU, does not have a ‘pure’ or ‘direct’ democracy system. Unelected officials are entrusted with power, so I’m wondering how you can qualify your statement that the UK “did regain the right for themselves and their grandchildren to vote for, or remove, the people who make the laws they have to abide by”

We clearly never had, lost nor regained what you claim. You can understand my confusion.

On another point, while there is a degree of overlap within some of its Institutions, the EU does indeed observe the Trias Politica Model’s 'separation of powers' for the executive, judiciary and legislature.

To the extent that the EU falls short of separating its powers completely, and why this is an issue, again I’m confused…
Perhaps you’d like to point out one single instance where the EU’s executive/judiciary/legislature overlap has negatively affected Britain such that extraction from this system was worth opening up the utterly predictable, deep-seated divisions that Brexit was so obviously bound to inflict upon the native British populace. Exactly what overlap of powers was worth the likes of me an you having an argument that will never go away and will ensure we can never be friends?

On this issue, I wonder how you feel about the Leveson recommendations for the separation of powers of the British 'propaganda triad' of Politics, Police and Press: an unholy trinity that has caused genuine hurt for the people of Britain and about which nothing has been done.

- Do you remember Andy Coulson, the unelected Special Advisor to PM Cameron who was imprisoned for his role in phone hacking? He was effectively employed, without shame, as Cameron’s head of propaganda: his Goebbels.
- And you do know Blair is godfather to two of Murdoch’s daughters?
- Are you at all familiar with the political pressure to avoid press regulation and not hold journalists, politicians, and law enforcement accountable for the lies they tell the people?
- Are you at all interested in the vulnerability of the democratic process to propaganda?
- Do you care what the truth is regarding the EU’s directives on the bendiness of bananas?
- Do you care that these directives were actually quality control measures imposed upon suppliers like Panama, and nothing to do with the EU dictating to Britain which bananas they are allowed to enjoy?
- Do you care what motives lie behind the misreporting of such things?
- Do you care that such mass manipulation of the national psyche through lies and innuendo is not only allowed in a democracy like Britain but it is institutionalised?
- Do you care that much of the press is owned by individuals with an agenda, and they work with government for their mutual benefit, and that both Westminster and Fleet St have buried the Leveson recommendation to separate these powers?
- Are you aware that this is a peculiarly British problem and that countries in the EU have the sovereignty to ensure that such propaganda trysts do not happen?
- Do you care about press and politicians proffering the same falsehoods about the EU inhibiting our sovereignty… or about the fallacious benefits of Brexit to the economy… or lies about the EU dictating domestic immigration policy?
- Do you care that the day after the referendum Johnson and Farage admitted that the promise of a £350m per week increase in NHS funding was indeed a lie propagated at their behest by the press?
- Do you care about the recent return of sectarian violence in Northern Ireland because of Brexit; a situation that propagandists denied would happen?
- Do you care that because of Brexit an increased determination for Scottish independence threatens the very existence of Britain… again, a very real possibility played down by the press?
- Do you care that the cozy tryst between the press and politicians labeled all such warnings ‘Project Fear’ even in the face of irrefutable facts like the 25% devaluation of the pound against the euro as a direct result of Brexit?
- Do you care that the huge benefits a weak pound should have for exports were obliterated by our extraction from the single market, such that exports are not up 25% but are actually down 25%?
- Do you care that contrary to what the propagandists said, Project Fear is turning out to be a conservative warning, and things could get far worse?

So when you talk of unelected officials with enormous influence, and the non-separation of powers… I’m really confused… are you talking about the UK, where such things thrive… and where the sovereignty to change course was never hampered by the EU… and where the propaganda machine is so well-oiled the people no longer even care that they’re being lied to, but simply submit to uncritical thinking, swallow the job lot, and regurgitate key phrases backed up by not the slightest bit of evidence or cogent reasoning?

Such stupid propaganda tenets as: "When we're out of the EU we can make our own laws"...
When asked which EU law they would like to repeal, they can name not one.
When asked which law would they like that the EU is stopping them from making, they can name not one.
They do not understand that in fact European law was guided by the UK, or that being in the EU gives you the power of veto that you don't have outside. Inside, you have some control over the hegemony.

But there is no reasoning with people who do not hold currency in reason. And this is why the propaganda works so well, and why the separation of powers between Fleet Street and Westminster is essential for a functioning democracy, and yet people like you seem more bothered that the Council of the EU has one foot in the legislative camp and one in the executive - without ever giving me a reason why that might be a problem. It's like your head is on the guillotine and you're freaking out about an itchy nose.

Am I confused? Hell yeah.

With regard to what you describe as "an hegemonic entity that only obeys international law when it suits it” - I presume you are therefore furious with the UK for its disregard of the Northern Ireland Protocol, which it negotiated with the EU, and signed into law, yet doesn’t want to obey because it doesn't suit.

In order to “get Brexit done” Johnson gave up May’s Irish Sea border red line. It was a price worth paying, apparently, to regain the sovereignty - that was never lost - to separate powers that it never separated, and to vote for exactly 1/650th of the lawmakers and none of the civil servants, special advisors or Lords.

And now Johnson wants May’s red line back. He wants no border in the Irish Sea. But he also wants no border in Ireland and he blames the EU for not letting him have no effective border with the EU. He wants Brexit and he doesn’t want Brexit. He want to be out of the EU, and in the EU.

Brexit means Brexit means the Northern Ireland Protocol. If Johnson doesn’t want that, then either he doesn’t want Brexit, or he didn’t get Brexit done, or the UK is an “entity that only obeys international law when it suits it”

Whatever the case, I’m confused. Aren’t you?

Even more confusing is this: The freedom of movement of Europeans was reduced by Brexit from 27 countries to 26, no great loss, and yet for Britons that number went down from 27 countries to just 1. Are you saying that the slashing of the freedom of 70 million Britons to live and work in 26 other countries was a price worth paying in order to free Britain from “an hegemonic entity” whose hegemonic power and influence we now no longer share by virtue of self-exclusion?

I’m sorry… but, er, what?!!

I mean by definition, extracting oneself from hegemony is giving up power and influence. The hegemony doesn’t go away, we just no longer have any guiding hand in it. I just don’t understand, perhaps you can explain, in what possible circumstance might having less power and influence be a good idea? An idea worth giving up millions of Britons’ freedoms for?

You can understand why I am quite confused… can’t you?

You see, it seems that the UK had the sovereignty all along to ensure that all of the things you purport to deplore in the EU can and do thrive in the UK without any interference whatsoever from the EU. It’s almost as if the EU was not to blame for any of the UK’s woes after all.

Finally, if my assumption that you are British living in France is correct, then there is yet further confusion…
Back in England some people had asked me why, if I liked Europe so much, didn’t I move there. So I did.
They couldn’t exactly ask me why I didn’t go back to where I came from, because I’m English. But perhaps you might like to explain to me why they should not legitimately ask that question of you.

(Actually, Graham, I can imagine how depressingly predictable your answers to all my questions will be, so let’s just consider them rhetorical, then there’s no pressure to answer any of them)
mrrolight
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Re: Titre de séjour post Brexit

Post by mrrolight »

Oh, and just to underscore my confusion... you are aware that David Frost, the UK's Chief Brexit Negotiator, who was instrumental in agreeing the Northern Ireland Protocol and signing it into International Law... You know, the guy at the sharp end who has dictated the terms of Brexit both to the EU and the British electorate (even though not a single Briton was ever allowed a vote on those terms) is actually an unelected bureaucrat.

Just think about that.

As much as there is no democratic mandate for the terms of Brexit, there is no democratic mandate for that man to represent the UK, and dictate to the EU or the British electorate what those terms must be.

Is this not the most gross abuse of power by an unelected bureaucrat imaginable? Clearly you do not approve of the power of unelected bureaucrats - so how come you are not screaming blue murder about Frost?

Added to my confusion is that Frost's Brexit means there must now be a customs border with the EU, but he doesn't want one in the Irish Sea and he doesn't want one across the island of Ireland, so he doesn't want a border but his Brexit means that he wants a border. This is as idiotic as a box of frogs.

There is no answer to the conundrum and the man who is appointed to solve the unsolvable issue is not even elected by the people who are desperate for a solution.

Now since this unelected bureaucrat is making a right royal hash of a pigs ear, I wonder what your solution to this unsolvable problem might be? I am electing you to come up with a way of simultaneously having a border and not having one, which is one more vote and therefore a greater mandate than Frost has ever had.
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