How many kisses?

Sus · Post by **Sus** » Thu 31 Dec 2015 00:38

Ever wondered "combine de bises" to give to your French friends? Here is a rather amusing website:

http://combiendebises.free.fr

I always thought it was 4 for friends and family and 2 for everyone else but apparently not!

martyn94 · Post by **martyn94** » Thu 31 Dec 2015 10:57

The website is not only amusing but pretty accurate in my experience. I have particular problems of adaptation because I split my time mostly between the extremes of Seine Maritime (given as 2 on the map, but in practice 4 where I live, almost in the Oise) and PO (given as 2, which seems to be right). Not to mention time in Paris and the Cantal (2 and 3, which again seem to be right).

Potentially more embarrassing (if you get it wrong and clash) is the question of which cheek to "lead" with. It's right cheek to right cheek in most of France but (allegedly) left to left in part of Normandy (including the Seine Maritime, although again where I live we follow right to right as in Picardy) and the Meditteranean coast, including the PO. See here

http://www.snackable.fr/stories/lifesty ... oTy1MSkqK0

I can't see I've noticed left-to-left round here, but I'm notably clumsy and insensitive to other people's body language, and most of my "bises" are with people who aren't locals "de souche". What have others found?

Not to mention the question of how much contact you actually make, if any. That seems to be more a matter of class: the more bourgeois you are, the less you touch (you don't want to spoil their make-up).

All that said, people are usually very nice when you get it wrong, and it gives you something to talk about.

Post by **Kate** » Fri 01 Jan 2016 11:17

Here's a little bit of research from a few years ago.....
http://anglophone-direct.com/faire-la-b ... in-france/?

I must admit that despite having lived in France longer than I ever lived in England, my British side still wants to just wave my hand in a big all encompassing circle when I walk into a room, and say a general 'hi'.

And then of course, there are plenty of reasons NOT to faire la bise!!

http://anglophone-direct.com/french-kis ... o-say-non/

martyn94 · Post by **martyn94** » Sat 02 Jan 2016 12:15

I find it extraordinary, though regrettably not surprising, that 114 people have viewed this thread, almost all of whom could have made a useful contribution with minimal effort, but only two of us could be arsed.

Sus asked an implicit question - how many bises do you give round here (or rather how many bises do other people expect to get)? - and I asked an explicit one - which cheek do people start with?

Responding would have taken one keystroke (1, 2, 3,4,5) or a maximum of 5 (right, left). And anyone would have had a response to offer, unless they live totally in some sort of expat bubble. It's not some geeky question about debugging windows 10, or whatever.

Come on, guys. This forum is not laid on for you by the sécurité sociale.

lonesome paddy · Post by **lonesome paddy** » Sat 02 Jan 2016 12:34

0.........

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Sun 03 Jan 2016 16:21

Having worked in a 'luvvie' profession most of my adult life, 'kissing' has an added dilemma for me when out in France. In luvvie-land, one or two kisses can be followed by a hug - and sometimes it's just a hug, no kiss.

But as far as I know, hugs are a no-no in France - so I have to try and remember not to revert to type when meeting friends and neighbours (although British friends - sorry! You may well encounter a hug from me if we haven't met up for a while)

Normally though, with my good French neighbours, it seems to be two bisous - although living in a block where many have second homes and come from all parts of France, I've had x 3 often, and even had x 4 once!

My normal rule is to try and let them take the lead and I follow suit, trying to read the body language along the way. There've certainly been a few banged noses at times though!

martyn94 · Post by **martyn94** » Mon 04 Jan 2016 12:08

Helen wrote:
My normal rule is to try and let them take the lead and I follow suit, trying to read the body language along the way. There've certainly been a few banged noses at times though!

Me too, though you can get into a sort of "after you, Claude" situation. There's evidently a PhD thesis to be got from the question of hugging. I am the polar opposite of Helen, and from my perspective French people get to get grips more than I naturally would. Which says more about me than about them.

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Mon 04 Jan 2016 15:10

Martyn, I promise that should we ever encounter one another, I'll try and remember to gently offer my hand for you to shake and refrain from anything more touchy-feely!

Funnily enough I've just started reading 'Travels in Languedoc - Secrets to a Memorable Visit' by Andrea Swan with Monique Guezel and the very first chapter includes a reference to kissing. Monique is Languedoc born and bred but even she confesses to having to second-guess sometimes. Apparently you 'move to towards the person's left cheek, make a kissing sound and then repeat on the other side. One never actually kisses the cheek.'

Hmm, not so sure about that. I'm sure cheek-kissing has happened in the past.

Monique also says that the Languedoc is usually two bisous, but that the coastal villages do three and, in the north, it's four!

Incidentally, I recommend the book from what I've read so far. It's a good mixture of travelogue and regional recipes.

martyn94 · Post by **martyn94** » Mon 04 Jan 2016 16:16

Helen wrote:Martyn, I promise that should we ever encounter one another, I'll try and remember to gently offer my hand for you to shake and refrain from anything more touchy-feely!

Funnily enough I've just started reading 'Travels in Languedoc - Secrets to a Memorable Visit' by Andrea Swan with Monique Guezel and the very first chapter includes a reference to kissing. Monique is Languedoc born and bred but even she confesses to having to second-guess sometimes. Apparently you 'move to towards the person's left cheek, make a kissing sound and then repeat on the other side. One never actually kisses the cheek.'

Hmm, not so sure about that. I'm sure cheek-kissing has happened in the past.

Monique also says that the Languedoc is usually two bisous, but that the coastal villages do three and, in the north, it's four!

Incidentally, I recommend the book from what I've read so far. It's a good mixture of travelogue and regional recipes.

At last, a line on the fabled left cheek-to-left cheek bise down here. If true, it's very much an exception to the practice in most of France. As to kissing proper, I agree that you touch cheeks (or come close if you're prim) and make a more-or-less emphatic "mouah" noise (think Ab Fab if you want to express your inner luvvie). You can't really kiss with your lips: the angles are all wrong.

When we meet, do what comes naturally. I don't flinch much nowadays, on a good day.

Oh, and the book seems quite fun. Not to mention the recipes - it's surprisingly hard to find convincing ones.

Post by **Kate** » Mon 04 Jan 2016 16:28

I tend to veer to the left first (kissing on the right to right cheek) but I wonder if it's anything to do with whether you're right or left handed? My (French) husband, in answer to my deep and researching question, has just answered 'dunno, never thought about it' so maybe its only the none French who actually pose the question?

Sus · Post by **Sus** » Mon 04 Jan 2016 16:52

Martyn94, thanks for sharing the article, the left right debate is interesting. I tend to also try reading the body language, sometimes more successful than others!

I am not sure about the part of the article on when to kiss , I would say that up to 5-7 people, you are better off making the round especially if you know some people even only slightly.

Definitely no real kissing, I think you could write a Phd on that alone, including the different type of noises people make….

martyn94 · Post by **martyn94** » Mon 04 Jan 2016 16:54

Kate wrote:I tend to veer to the left first (kissing on the right to right cheek) but I wonder if it's anything to do with whether you're right or left handed? My (French) husband, in answer to my deep and researching question, has just answered 'dunno, never thought about it' so maybe its only the none French who actually pose the question?

Not at all: the French pose the question too eg here (in an earlier post of mine, but I'll repeat it)

http://www.snackable.fr/stories/lifesty ... oqSicSkqK1

It seems that most of France does it right cheek to right cheek (ie putting your face to the left) except for the Meditteranean Coast and a part of Normandy. Which seems to suggest that it's a bit more complicated than simple right-handedness.

If I don't post here for a while, I've probably been nicked for voyeurism: I've been trying to observe how people actually do it, so far with no results (apart from some funny looks).

martyn94 · Post by **martyn94** » Mon 04 Jan 2016 17:16

Sus wrote:Martyn94, thanks for sharing the article, the left right debate is interesting. I tend to also try reading the body language, sometimes more successful than others!

I am not sure about the part of the article on when to kiss , I would say that up to 5-7 people, you are better off making the round especially if you know some people even only slightly.

Definitely no real kissing, I think you could write a Phd on that alone, including the different type of noises people make….

To be honest, I didn't even read as far, first time, as the bit about how big the group has to be before you don't make the round. It's yet another fascinating question, which has arisen for me, mostly, in the case of families I know well with the odd girlfriend present who I had never seen before (and quite possibly would not see again next week, or ever). I learnt, slowly, that this was missing the point: if anyone gets a bise, everyone gets a bise (and especially the gamins, obviously).

In my experience, the size of the group is more relevant when you are leaving: a bise for your hosts, and a benevolent wave for the rest (if more than say 6) works for me. But again, it does no harm to say goodbye to the kids.

montgolfiere · Post by **montgolfiere** » Tue 05 Jan 2016 09:15

It appears the Dutch do 3!!

montgolfiere · Post by **montgolfiere** » Tue 05 Jan 2016 09:15

It appears i often try the wrong cheek first!!!

catllar · Post by **catllar** » Sun 18 Sep 2016 14:43

Our friends seem to be 2-ers and no touching apart from one pal who insists on great plonking kisses combined with a shoulder crushing squeeze followed by a pat on the back! - Gets you covered from (almost) all angles!

martyn94 · Post by **martyn94** » Wed 02 Nov 2016 16:21

[quote="HelenApparently you 'move to towards the person's left cheek, make a kissing sound and then repeat on the other side. One never actually kisses the cheek.'

Hmm, not so sure about that. I'm sure cheek-kissing has happened in the past[/quote]

I just rediscovered this, poodling about. Are you sure it wasn't Donald Trump, on his hols? Though perhaps more than cheeks in his case.

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How many kisses?

How many kisses?