Tax Fonciere

Buying, selling or renting in the area

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Patricia
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue 27 Sep 2011 11:24

Tax Fonciere

Post by Patricia »

Have just received my 2011 bill. I wanted to opt to pay monthly but when I went to website to register in says in the year 2012. Does this mean I am unable to pay my current bill monthly? Any advice gratefully received ...
Mrs H

Re: Tax Fonciere

Post by Mrs H »

Patricia wrote:Have just received my 2011 bill. I wanted to opt to pay monthly but when I went to website to register in says in the year 2012. Does this mean I am unable to pay my current bill monthly? Any advice gratefully received ...
Err......... you've already had a years credit, don't think they'll give you another one. :)
User avatar
sue and paul
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 945
Joined: Tue 11 Jul 2006 13:18
Contact:

Post by sue and paul »

I think you have to pay the current bill, and opt for 10 monthlies now, for 2012 bill. You'll probably have to start paying the 2012 instalments in January 2012, I'm guessing. So it may hurt for this first year.
ruby
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon 18 Dec 2006 12:04
Contact:

tax fonciere

Post by ruby »

Hi
yes the above info is correct and you could always pop into your local tresor public office or write to them and ask to pay this bill in a few payments...perhaps over 4 months just depending on the amount... hope this is of help ;-)
ruby
Ruby

Property Management, Holiday lets & Property Sales in Dept 66
www.lesjoursheureux66.com
Patricia
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue 27 Sep 2011 11:24

Post by Patricia »

Thank you for your advice - thought perhaps worked the same as UK - obviously not.

Mrs H - why the unpleasant sarcasm - asked a reasonable question and thankfully received a reasonable answer from others.
User avatar
Sue
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 1768
Joined: Tue 02 Dec 2008 15:08
Contact:

Post by Sue »

I thought England worked the same but my mind may be playing tricks because some years have passed since I paid there.
Dylan
User avatar
Santiago
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 1290
Joined: Tue 27 Dec 2005 12:19
Contact:

Post by Santiago »

In all fairness Patricia, Mrs H was pointing out that your bill is for services since January 2011, therefore you have already had 10 months interest free credit and you can't start to pay monthly once the full bill is due. She did put a :) to show that it was meant tongue in cheek. Welcome to the forum.
Domaine Treloar - Vineyard and Winery - www.domainetreloar.com - 04 68 95 02 29
carol sheridan
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 340
Joined: Fri 12 Oct 2007 11:29
Contact:

Post by carol sheridan »

Slightly off topic, but might be helpful to someone -I have had a €100 reduction from my Tax Fonciere for 2011 because I am 71 and my income was below the minimum as I was resident in France for only four months in 2010. I live alone and it is my sole residence. Originally, the local tax office accused me of cohabiting with the man from whom I bought my flat! I didn't know whether to be amused or outraged,but I took the Acte de Vente into the office.
It was a holiday home, so the vendor files his declarations at his home address in Paris - I don't know if he was supposed to inform the tax office here.

MY only taxable income in France is my UK State Retirement Pension, as my other two pensions are for UK government service (Teacher's and Civil Service) but I believe they will be taken into account in arriving at my revenue for 2011, so I won't qualify next year. (Not the end of the world - the tax is only €267 anyway.)
User avatar
Sue
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 1768
Joined: Tue 02 Dec 2008 15:08
Contact:

Post by Sue »

You do know Carol that if the french tax form is filled in in the right places UK state pension is tax exempt.
Dylan
carol sheridan
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 340
Joined: Fri 12 Oct 2007 11:29
Contact:

Post by carol sheridan »

Thanks, Dylan. I think am pretty clued up on French tax, having been making delcarations for ten years, but even though my two UK pensions for government service are not taxable in France, I believe they could be taken into account when calculating my income for the purposes of Taxe Fonciere and Taxe D'Habitation.
( I was a Tax Inspector in England, but apart from being able to read small print, it is not much help in France!)
User avatar
Sue
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 1768
Joined: Tue 02 Dec 2008 15:08
Contact:

Post by Sue »

Ive been making them for 6 years and I am certainly far from being clued up but you have the advantage on me of being in the game in England. No offence was meant and I am sorry if I sounded like I was trying to teach my grandmother how to suck eggs!
Dylan
User avatar
polremy
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 638
Joined: Sun 01 Jun 2008 14:40
Contact:

Post by polremy »

Slightly off topic here but am so amazed that I just have to tell someone.
We sold our Torreilles house in March but realise that we are liable for the whole year's taxes foncieres.
Was getting a bit worried that we hadn't received a bill as in past years the final date for payment has always been 15th October. Didn't want threatening letters or 10% increase for not paying on time.
So.....I emailed the office in my best French, explained the situation and asked them to let me know the damage so that I could pay by cheque.
Blimey - got a reply within 2 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is this some kind of record?

The downside is I suppose I'll have to pay it now.
User avatar
Santiago
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 1290
Joined: Tue 27 Dec 2005 12:19
Contact:

Post by Santiago »

Is that right that UK state pensions and all government pensions, like teachers pensions are exempt for income tax in France? Are they exempt in the UK too? I didn't think so.
Domaine Treloar - Vineyard and Winery - www.domainetreloar.com - 04 68 95 02 29
User avatar
Sue
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 1768
Joined: Tue 02 Dec 2008 15:08
Contact:

Post by Sue »

As far as I have been told government pensions and private pensions/annuities are taxable in England but state pension is exempt in England and France although in England it gets included in unearned income thus increasing your tax payment. If I have got this wildly wrong then I stand corrected in advance. In France when they say it is excluded thats what they mean.
Dylan
User avatar
Colin L
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed 21 Dec 2005 00:17
Contact:

Post by Colin L »

Santiago wrote:....like teachers pensions ......Are they exempt in the UK too?
I wish!

Then I could buy more of your wine.
carol sheridan
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 340
Joined: Fri 12 Oct 2007 11:29
Contact:

Post by carol sheridan »

I was not in the least offended - there is plenty about French tax that still puzzles me.
Just to clear up a misconception that crops up on various ex-pat forums from time to time. The State Retirement Pension from the DWP (Old age pension) is not classed as a UK government pension and is taxable in the country of residence (i.e. France, for us).
Government Pensions are those paid in respect of government service in the UK, such as those for teachers and civil servants. Throughout the EU, these are taxable by the government that pays them, ie. the UK for us.
Until this year, these were declared on your French return, as well as the tax paid on them, but were not taxed in France. There seems to be a lot of confusion now, as apparently you are supposed to pay French tax on them and then get a credit against the UK tax paid.
I believe that your total income, includng government pensions, has been taken into account when calculating exemptions and reductions for property taxes, but that seems to vary according to your French tax office.
If anyone has the definitive answer to the new rules, I for one would be very grateful to hear it.
carol sheridan
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 340
Joined: Fri 12 Oct 2007 11:29
Contact:

Post by carol sheridan »

I don't know if anyone has any ideas on this - I came back to live in France in September, 2010, having had to spend 18 months in England to help my daughter. My sole income is from two UK government pensions (Teachers' and Civil Service) and my UK State Retirement Pension. I went to my local tax office with my P60's and showed them how I had apportioned my income to cover Sept - Dec 2010, the months when I was resident in France. They very kindly completed my declaration for me and as expected it resulted in no tax being payable and they also gave me a certificate to take to the Tresorie to say I was entitled to the €100 reduction on the Taxe Fonciere, because I am over 65 and my income was below the threshold, it is my sole residence and I live alone. (There are other categories for reduction, like disability, but they don't affect me).
Now a man who is always hostile to me on another forum (he trawled my post for several years, trying to find ways to discredit me) has said my entire income for 2010 should have been taken into account, not just the part when I was resident in France. I have spent a long time looking at various sites, including impots.gouv.fr but I can't find any reference to being resident for only part of the year. It does seem strange if I could be taxed on pension earned when I was not resident here.
I am away from home for two weeks , house/pet sitting for a friend in Switzerland, so I can't look up the notes that came with my tax form.

As the tax inspector completed my declaration for me and I had given him all the relevant figures, do I accept his word or go back and tell him he might be wrong?
oiesauvage
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed 09 Apr 2008 13:21

Post by oiesauvage »

Hi I wonder if I can tag a question onto this thread please? I am in the process of securing a mortgage from a french bank and am currently filling out the loan application - there is a question regarding country of residence for tax purposes - does this relate to the fonciere and is there any difference betweening stating France or Ireland (where we are resident at the moment)?
Thanks in advance for any information :)
User avatar
opas
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 1290
Joined: Thu 13 Jul 2006 09:31
Contact:

Post by opas »

Tx foncier is related to property , such as your dustbin collection/police:fire sevice, when you buy a house in france you will be informed by the immobilier/seller how expensive this is, ie if you live in a village/town /city. tax D'habitation is connected to your earnings in that depending on how much you declare as a french resident your other property tax will work on a sliding scale, it is personal to you and your property.
The mortgage lender are asking where you are fiscally resident, if you are resident in Ireland then that is your answer, if in the future you decide to live permanently in France then you will complete annual French tax returns.
-----------------------------------------------
Debeneur.
property management, changeovers, garden maintenance, no job too small. Highchair, travelcot, pram hire.
carol sheridan
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 340
Joined: Fri 12 Oct 2007 11:29
Contact:

Post by carol sheridan »

Sorry not to have replied - I have been travelling to England, then on to New Zealand to spend Christmas with my daughter and her family. However, Opas has given you the necessary information.
There are still some people on TotalFrance forum who think they have a choice of where to be taxed, especially as regards to UK pensions. There are some people with complicated affairs, such as living in France but working in England, or vice versa, but for most people you will be taxed by the country where your 'centre of interest' lies, apart from the rule about government service pensions being taxed at source.
This has worked well for me in the past 11 years, as I have received my UK personal allowance (almost £10,000 p.a. as I am over 70} which almost covers my two UK government pensions, and I also receive a French allowance which has covered my State Retirement Pension.
Until last year, I also received an extra half point in France because I had been a single mother in the dim, dark past. I did point out that my children were now both grandmothers, but I was told it made no difference.
Unfortunately, I think this concession has now been withdrawn. Perhaps they no longer feel the need to encourage people to have more children!
oiesauvage
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed 09 Apr 2008 13:21

Post by oiesauvage »

Hey thanks Opas - much appreciated :)
Post Reply