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Posted: Thu 25 Oct 2007 15:44
Following on from a chat with the CPAM yesterday, points (which most of us are already aware) have been confirmed. if you have anything at all to add to this, please let me know so that we can share a maximum amount of info.
http://www.anglophone-direct.com/Ex-pat ... ate-health
The lady did specifically point out that CPAM workers are not clear on it themselves, and new directives are being issued weekly.
Posted: Thu 25 Oct 2007 16:09
Thanks for this Kate.I've spoken to a number of people re this,including Chemists,Doctors,and their understanding is much the same as what your article suggests,although the overriding message is that nothing had been finalised yet,and changes cannot be ruled out.Apparently there is certainly going to be a challenge made in the EU court,as this proposal contravenes European law.
It does seem grossly unfair,as,for example, in my old town in Norfolk,the large number of EU immigrants(Portuguese,Poles,Hungarians etc) are provided with full NHS care ,irrespective of employment,age,or marital status.
My view is that when things are a little clearer,and before it is too late (ie sometime early in the New Year) those of us who are going to be affected should get together,and present ourselves as a united front to a selection of insurance providers,to see what "quantity discounts" can be secured from them.
What do others feel?
Posted: Thu 25 Oct 2007 16:29
That is really quite a good idea John, although I suppose what we each are quoted will prob depend on our individual states of decrepitude
It certainly looks as though Paul and I will have to do something, malheureusement. There will be a gap of only about 6 months between the dates we got our Cartes Vitales and my 60th birthday, but even that will be too long to be without insurance I expect.
You never know, it might take CPAM, or whoever, at least that long to get round to us!! One can live in hope...which is a bit of a Peak District joke, as the village of Hope is not far from our beloved Bakewell
Posted: Thu 25 Oct 2007 16:48
Strange that over the past few days we have had 2 phone calls (cold calling) and one flyer.letter from assurance/insurance companies trying to flog us health care. Now they have either "bought" a list of brit sounding names from CPAM or looking through the phone directories taking their chances on flogging a policy.....oh forgot to add and a couple of emails too!
Posted: Thu 25 Oct 2007 17:07
By chance found a good article on the French Entree website yesterday - www.frenchentree.com/fe-health
- which might be of some use too.
Posted: Thu 25 Oct 2007 17:33
It might well be worth getting a couple of reputable agencies together and seeing what kind of reduction they will offer people if they get a large group. Insurers usually offer 'introducer's commission' for new contracts so we could ask for that commission to be deducted (I say we but it doesn't aply to me as my husband is French) and shared amongst the group.
Posted: Thu 25 Oct 2007 19:37
opas wrote:Strange that over the past few days we have had 2 phone calls (cold calling) and one flyer.letter from assurance/insurance companies trying to flog us health care. Now they have either "bought" a list of brit sounding names from CPAM or looking through the phone directories taking their chances on flogging a policy.....oh forgot to add and a couple of emails too!
Well, either they must be aware also of the ages of the people they're polling or they're expensively casting wide nets!
I haven't had any such calls or mails - wonder if it's because Oliver
happens to be a Catalan surname name too (especially on Mallorca!) - the local phonebook has loads of Olivers in 66 - and with "prenom" Roger
there is no sure indication that I'm a Brit - or did they check the CRAM (not CPAM) that I'm receiving a legitimate French "old age" pension since mid 2003? If they are able to access and search the CRAM database and combine a "not found" with a "Brit-looking" name in a phone list, for example, that could be an answer why they poll certain people and not others??
Posted: Thu 25 Oct 2007 20:54
Kate at what level is one to take the info?Is the info the official government line re the person interviewed and if so anyone taking the action on the info able to refer back in the event a court case,I think not,the whole thing is still as clear as mud to them that need clear advice.
Kate I do not know if you are married but if you are and from what I have read you should be covered by that fact,I am not having a go but even now there is nothing to be found anywhere difinitive about the new system.
Posted: Thu 25 Oct 2007 21:16
outie wrote:Kate I do not know if you are married .
Outie, you never met the young, handsome, virile Olivier???
Have a look at Kate's personal "Life in the PO"!!
http://www.anglophone-direct.com/Septem ... 7#contents
Scroll down to Wednesday 14th September then check the Photo "Cocktails on the seafront". (Click on it to enlarge) Olivier is the one on the left!
Alternatively, check Oct 2006
Scroll down to Monday 16 October to see Olivier reclining in the massage armchair (not sure if that's Mao's red book he's holding!)
Posted: Fri 26 Oct 2007 05:04
M Sarkozy is acting unlawfully. Having asked my Advocat, he seems to agree that this discrimination is unlawful. There seems to be a lot of disinformation going around. It is my belief that The Haque Convention may be invoked by anyone. I believe that, as EU residents, we are all entitled to the healthcare available in each member state. I doubt that new so-called immigrants are being turned away by the NHS.
Posted: Fri 26 Oct 2007 07:09
Can't see what all the fuss is about. Friends under 60 who moved here simply went to the CPAM and asked to join the system. Costs abot €120 a month for a married couple. Roughly what many readers spend on a couple of meals at a restaurant.
Seems to me like a small price to pay for the use of what is reckoned to be the world's best public healtcare service.
Posted: Fri 26 Oct 2007 08:15
I think you will find that what your friends are paying for now is for the CMU , after 31/3/08 all that will dissapear(allegedly) and Private health insurance will be required , which will be much higher in price, the really frightening thing is sourcing out this cover, especially for the older end or those with pre-existing medical conditions.
So that is what all the fuss is about Mr Gunn.
Correct me if i am wrong.........
Posted: Fri 26 Oct 2007 09:51
You are absolutely right,opas.I (and countless others) only wish it was as simple as Mr Gunn is suggesting.Unfortunately it's not.Your other half is also correct that as yet nothing seems to be certain,but that does not mean it's prudent to just pretend it's not happpening.
Clearly Paul Francis' understanding is the same as mine re this outrageous proposal..ie there is every possibility that it will be challenged in the EU court.As both he and I said,the Portuguese etc are not being treated as shabbily as this by the British NHS.
This is just the latest example of a slow,but very definite trend beginning to creep in here in France,of wanting all the benefits of EU membership,but not wanting the responsibilities.
Posted: Fri 26 Oct 2007 10:04
Is the info the official government line re the person interviewed and if so anyone taking the action on the info able to refer back in the event a court case,
This is as a result of a 'chat' with the lady from the CPAM. To be quite honest, I don't think she knows any more (as maybe even less) than me. she was more confirming the points that I was making than adding anything useful and kept adding that it was changing all the time.
Personally, I wouldn't worry about it too much until it actually happens but would start looking out for the right insurance to be ready! Some insurers are going to make a killing on this so if someone starts to negotiate on behalf of a big group, we are sure to get better deal.
Having said that, as I said in my last post "it doesn't apply to me as my husband is French"
Posted: Fri 26 Oct 2007 11:58
Sorry Kate indeed you did,I should have read your whole post.The way I see it that no one knows for sure what will happen and while John is right to be prudent, no infomation is better than mis-infomation however well meanning.
Posted: Fri 26 Oct 2007 23:22
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Posted: Sat 27 Oct 2007 00:04
What this appears to infer is that the although the UK may (be deemed to) be "lax" in strict application of the above EU rules with regard to immigrants (from other EU countries), this fact in no way demands reciprocity concerning immigrant UK citizens to other EU countries nor affects in any way the right of the French (or any other EU country) to strictly apply them.
Posted: Sat 27 Oct 2007 09:32
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Posted: Sat 27 Oct 2007 12:49
Michael, the Spanish have not "implemented" the EU directive,as such,as ,as you say the provision of full healthcare contributions/provision was never there in the first place.
I think you are also missing the point slightly about the French situation.Not many people are suggesting that we should live here"rent free" so to speak.We would like to contribute to the health service coffers here.The daft thing about the new rule is that we are in effect banned from doing so.We HAVE to swell the already no doubt burgeoning coffers of some insurance company.CRAZY!!!
The whole thing is not as simple as you are stating.Being a "burden on the state" takes many forms.This is why people far better qualified than you or me ARE looking into the legalities of the French take on the EU directive.For example there is also a EU directive that obliges EU countries to provide Primary Healthcare services to ALL legal residents. It is a very grey area ,and nowhere near as cut and dries as you are making out.
Posted: Sat 27 Oct 2007 23:51
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Posted: Sun 28 Oct 2007 09:24
As you say,Michael,the Spanish have not had to "implement" these directives,as they are not available to anyone..inc Spaniards.
With respect,you are still missing the point re France.All that is being said is why is it that we are banned from even joining the State system(making contributions etc?).Then we would fulfil the criteria of not being a burden on the state.
I'll leave it to you to tell all the well qualified lawyers who ARE looking at this that they are wasting their time(IYO)
Posted: Sun 28 Oct 2007 17:52
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Posted: Sun 28 Oct 2007 18:36
That is NOT the point I'm making. Clealy I'm not expressing myself sufficiently well.
I give up!
Posted: Sun 28 Oct 2007 18:46
I think you will find that it is the interpretation of the EU crap that will fill the pockets of the lawyers and us "plebs" will have to put up with it.Not me mate for sure,out of the EU is the best way for the UK and join up as the 52nd state of the US of A is the way forward.
Posted: Sun 28 Oct 2007 18:53
outie wrote:I think you will find that it is the interpretation of the EU crap that will fill the pockets of the lawyers and us "plebs" will have to put up with it.Not me mate for sure,out of the EU is the best way for the UK and join up as the 52nd state of the US of A is the way forward.
And then we will all have NO health cover
Posted: Sun 28 Oct 2007 20:52
How many dead and dying have you seen on the streets of the US of A due to lack of health care??????
Posted: Sun 28 Oct 2007 21:20
outie wrote:How many dead and dying have you seen on the streets of the US of A due to lack of health care??????
Look at Micheal Moore's documentary "Sicko" where he had to take wounded firemen from 9/11 not treated in the USA illegally to CUBA (!!!) to get proper treatment
Posted: Mon 29 Oct 2007 08:41
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Posted: Mon 29 Oct 2007 08:59
Michael and Groslard are right. Outie's occasional anti EU and pro US rants are all good knock-about stuff,but unfortunately he's been watching too many Hollywood movies.
Whilst it is true that one doesn't see people "dying on the streets" in the US,that,with respect, is not really the point.My daughter lives there (not far fom Hollywood in fact) and I know that the routine healthcare that you ,me,Outie,and everyone else takes for granted here in Europe is severely rationed there,unless you've got a lot of money.Luckily for her,my daughter's employers pay the exorbitant health insurance premiums.Otherwise, she'd not be able to afford it.
It's time that the myth of "it's really cheap to live in the USA" was nailed on the head.It isn't .It's far more expensive than here. Another myth that needs nailing is that " US government doesn't interfere in people's lives like the EU does". She has plenty of evidence that it does.Big time.
Posted: Mon 29 Oct 2007 14:19
I may have seen to many movies but none of then are Mr Moore leftie propaganda cheapie flics.
Pfrog where I live and what I think is right for my country,yes I will never be french and will not pretend to be so living in france will not change my views.Please do not give the normal rubbish about one can only live in France due to the EU...................................