Ex-Pat U.K. General Election

[Smiley G]

Not too sure which topic this goes under but we received our postal voting papers on Thursday (23rd) and posted them back on Friday.
If you've enabled Postal Voting for the U.K. General Election on May 7th, this note serves as a benchmark for the arrival of your paperwork.

[sue and paul]

Our postal voting papers arrived last Monday 20th, and we posted straight back. Very impressive service both by local electoral staff in Derbyshire Dales, and PO + La Poste. Last General Election the papers arrived at the last minute, and I was never sure if they got back in time

[martyn94]

I think I'm in a minority, but it seems to me scandalous that any of us who (like me) have definitively left the UK should have a vote there.

It is quite a recent idea (judged by the speed that the UK constitution usually evolves) dreamed up by M Thatcher on the calculation that expats - being mostly relatively well-off and certainly relatively old - would vote overwhelming for her lot. And all the subsequent research says that she got it right. Though maybe now we will be voting for UKIP (and serve her right if we do).

I know people who vote in the UK faute de mieux - if they insist on giving me the vote, I should use it to balance out the gaga righties - and I respect their position even if I do not follow it.

But I have never found anyone with principled reasons why any of us should have a vote at all. Any offers?

[vmaxvmax]

I think I'm in a minority, but it seems to me scandalous that any of us who (like me) have definitively left the UK should have a vote there.

It is quite a recent idea (judged by the speed that the UK constitution usually evolves) dreamed up by M Thatcher on the calculation that expats - being mostly relatively well-off and certainly relatively old - would vote overwhelming for her lot. And all the subsequent research says that she got it right. Though maybe now we will be voting for UKIP (and serve her right if we do).

I know people who vote in the UK faute de mieux - if they insist on giving me the vote, I should use it to balance out the gaga righties - and I respect their position even if I do not follow it.

But I have never found anyone with principled reasons why any of us should have a vote at all. Any offers?

Strong words.

I am sure that I am not the only early retiree who has a government pension (as distinct from state pensions) and who has no choice but to pay tax in the UK. This is part of a treaty agreed between all member EU states and applies to all EU ex government employees.



As a UK tax payer, I feel I have an absolute right to have my hard fought for say in how the UK government determines my tax will be spent.

As I get older and at some point start to draw on my state pension (on this pension the tax will be due to France), I will also want to have my say as to what a UK government might or might not do with that pension for which I paid NI contributions in the UK for over thirty years.

Citizens in the UK fought hard and sometimes to the death to earn the right to vote. Thatcher may or may not have had sinister ulterior motives and I am certainly not one of her supporters, but I feel I am exercising my absolute right when I cast my vote by post for the UK elections.

For those that have no connections nor vested interests in the UK, no doubt like you, then yes, perhaps there is a debate to be had as to where they should vote.

In the meantime I shall exercise my civil, moral and democratic duty to contribute as to how the UK government spends my money on my and all UK citizens behalf.

In summary in particular on your first point, I do not feel I am behaving in a scandalous fashion in so doing.

[Smiley G]

I echo your points Francis, very well put.

[Gus Morris]

Writ large across the front of my passport are the words "European Union".

Which means that, in some ways, UK ex-pats in France are not living in a foreign country. Ultimately the UK helps fund and run the EU. Thus it can be argued that the ex-pats have an inherent right to vote even though they pay little or no tax in the UK . After all they are directly affected by political decisions made in Westminster. Not only those of a fiscal nature.

Gus

[vmaxvmax]

Writ large across the front of my passport are the words "European Union".

Which means that, in some ways, UK ex-pats in France are not living in a foreign country. Ultimately the UK helps fund and run the EU. Thus it can be argued that the ex-pats have an inherent right to vote even though they pay little or no tax in the UK . After all they are directly affected by political decisions made in Westminster. Not only those of a fiscal nature.

Gus

Agreed. This is why EU treaties are drawn up this way. It is often about fairness being applied across europe - particularly when it comes to the double indemnity treaties to which public service pensions are subject.

I pay all my tax to the UK government and it is more than a little!

Having a government pension which is taxable only in the UK, implies a career spent in service to the public in the UK. In my case and I'm sure in many others, this is absolutely the case.

[sue and paul]

Cannot agree with Martyn94, and wholeheartedly agree with vmaxvmax, Gus and SmileyG. As a woman, there is an extra dimension for me, when I think of what women did to get us all the vote in the first place...well-documented in history. With 34 years in public service, not to mention paying tax and superannuation, I am not only entitled to my pension, but to a vote as to what the UK government does with the tax I still pay on it

[Allan]

I think I'm in a minority, but it seems to me scandalous that any of us who (like me) have definitively left the UK should have a vote there.

It is quite a recent idea (judged by the speed that the UK constitution usually evolves) dreamed up by M Thatcher on the calculation that expats - being mostly relatively well-off and certainly relatively old - would vote overwhelming for her lot. And all the subsequent research says that she got it right. Though maybe now we will be voting for UKIP (and serve her right if we do).

I know people who vote in the UK faute de mieux - if they insist on giving me the vote, I should use it to balance out the gaga righties - and I respect their position even if I do not follow it.

But I have never found anyone with principled reasons why any of us should have a vote at all. Any offers?

I think Martyn that you are almost definitely in a minority (probably of 1).

There are very few ex-pats that have no ties at all to the UK but even if you have no income or ties there, you are still a British citizen and your life is therefore affected by what the British Government does. That might take the form of relations with the EU or any other country for that matter.

You may no longer pay tax in the UK but presumably you have contributed in the past - do you really want no say in how that money is spent?

[Geoman]

Voting UKIP Martyn, while you are a British citizen living outside UK wouldn't seem like a sensible idea to me.

[Owens88]

If you have cut your ties with a country you should not be voting in its Government, you SHOULD be voting locally, your new HOME.

If you are still linked (financially not emotionally) then you vote in the homeland you are linked to.


If you left a Golf Club that you had been involved in for 40 years would you still expect to vote for the commitee members?

[montgolfiere]

i would love to vote in France (in national elections). not allowed. istill have a UK Passport and am still a UK Citizen then i should be allowed to vote. in the golf club example... i am still a card carrying Member!!

[martyn94]

I think I'm in a minority, but it seems to me scandalous that any of us who (like me) have definitively left the UK should have a vote there.

It is quite a recent idea (judged by the speed that the UK constitution usually evolves) dreamed up by M Thatcher on the calculation that expats - being mostly relatively well-off and certainly relatively old - would vote overwhelming for her lot. And all the subsequent research says that she got it right. Though maybe now we will be voting for UKIP (and serve her right if we do).

I know people who vote in the UK faute de mieux - if they insist on giving me the vote, I should use it to balance out the gaga righties - and I respect their position even if I do not follow it.

But I have never found anyone with principled reasons why any of us should have a vote at all. Any offers?

Strong words.

I am sure that I am not the only early retiree who has a government pension (as distinct from state pensions) and who has no choice but to pay tax in the UK. This is part of a treaty agreed between all member EU states and applies to all EU ex government employees.



As a UK tax payer, I feel I have an absolute right to have my hard fought for say in how the UK government determines my tax will be spent.

As I get older and at some point start to draw on my state pension (on this pension the tax will be due to France), I will also want to have my say as to what a UK government might or might not do with that pension for which I paid NI contributions in the UK for over thirty years.

Citizens in the UK fought hard and sometimes to the death to earn the right to vote. Thatcher may or may not have had sinister ulterior motives and I am certainly not one of her supporters, but I feel I am exercising my absolute right when I cast my vote by post for the UK elections.

For those that have no connections nor vested interests in the UK, no doubt like you, then yes, perhaps there is a debate to be had as to where they should vote.

In the meantime I shall exercise my civil, moral and democratic duty to contribute as to how the UK government spends my money on my and all UK citizens behalf.

In summary in particular on your first point, I do not feel I am behaving in a scandalous fashion in so doing.

So far as my taxable income is concerned, I am in just the same position. And will be soon, if I am spared, as regards the NIRP. But it does not seem to me that this small exposure to UK politics gives me a vote, when I am no longer affected by most of the matters I cared about when I lived there. And "connections" are neither here nor there: I have them in Australia and Canada and more distantly elsewhere, but I do not expect a vote there. Those of them that are adults have votes of their own. They have no right to an extra vote from me.

That said, if they insist on giving it to you, by all means use it. But I think that they shouldn't have done. Which was my point.

[martyn94]

Voting UKIP Martyn, while you are a British citizen living outside UK wouldn't seem like a sensible idea to me.

No indeed. Pretty much bonkers. But I will be interested to see how many of us do, if the psephologists can push their analysis that far.

[martyn94]

Writ large across the front of my passport are the words "European Union".

Which means that, in some ways, UK ex-pats in France are not living in a foreign country. Ultimately the UK helps fund and run the EU. Thus it can be argued that the ex-pats have an inherent right to vote even though they pay little or no tax in the UK . After all they are directly affected by political decisions made in Westminster. Not only those of a fiscal nature.

Gus

Agreed. This is why EU treaties are drawn up this way. It is often about fairness being applied across europe - particularly when it comes to the double indemnity treaties to which public service pensions are subject.

I pay all my tax to the UK government and it is more than a little!

Having a government pension which is taxable only in the UK, implies a career spent in service to the public in the UK. In my case and I'm sure in many others, this is absolutely the case.

I am sad enough that I spent some of my my life working on double-taxation agreements. The rule that government-service pensions are taxed only in the "source" country has nothing to do with the EU. It appears in every agreement I have ever seen between any country and any other country.

[Gus Morris]

There are those who can vote, those that cannot. In the UK and/or France. There are those that don't want the vote. Either on grounds of principle or disinterest.

But it all counts for nothing if the candidates, and the parties they represent, are viewed with suspicion. Either because they seen as out of touch with reality, motivated by greed or the exercise of power, simply bent as the proverbial nine bob note.

I am becoming persuaded that we need the "None of the above" box on the ballot papers and a formula which invalidates all candidates if a certain parameter is breached.

Gus