Registering to vote in the UK

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Ariègeoise
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Registering to vote in the UK

Post by Ariègeoise »

Those like me who live here permanently and have effectively burned their boats with the UK might nevertheless want to think about registering to vote back there - you can do so if you were on the electoral roll up to 15 years ago.

I have no love for British politics (or politics anywhere, come to that) but with the possibility of exit from the EU on the cards we emigrants need to make our voices heard and let it be known that we believe we should have a say in the future they are deciding for us!

You can register online - I've just done it and it takes about 3 minutes. You need your last registered address, your passport details and your NI number.

This is the link: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote.
martyn94
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Re: Registering to vote in the UK

Post by martyn94 »

Ariègeoise wrote:Those like me who live here permanently and have effectively burned their boats with the UK might nevertheless want to think about registering to vote back there - you can do so if you were on the electoral roll up to 15 years ago.

I have no love for British politics (or politics anywhere, come to that) but with the possibility of exit from the EU on the cards we emigrants need to make our voices heard and let it be known that we believe we should have a say in the future they are deciding for us!

You can register online - I've just done it and it takes about 3 minutes. You need your last registered address, your passport details and your NI number.

This is the link: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote.
Extending voting rights to expats, and extending them again, were two of M Thatcher's more cynical manoeuvres (which is saying a lot). That would be a sufficient reason to steer clear, for me, even if I thought UK politics was any of my business any more.
Allan
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Re: Registering to vote in the UK

Post by Allan »

martyn94 wrote: Extending voting rights to expats, and extending them again, were two of M Thatcher's more cynical manoeuvres (which is saying a lot). That would be a sufficient reason to steer clear, for me, even if I thought UK politics was any of my business any more.
I don't see anything cynical about it.

Most of us still have ties to the UK and family living there. I still pay taxes there, my future pension will be paid from there and my healthcare may be provided by France but I understand it is paid for by the UK.

The relationship between the UK and other European countries is of enormous importance to us and if Britain decides to leave the EU then it could potentially have a significant impact on all our lives.

Those of us dependent on income or savings in sterling are always at risk from the vagaries of the exchange rate which again is massively influenced by UK government policy.

Why on earth wouldn't I want a say?
Ariègeoise wrote:You can register online - I've just done it and it takes about 3 minutes. You need your last registered address, your passport details and your NI number.
I went through this process a few months ago. The on-line enquiry sends a request to the local authority responsible for your last address who then post you a form to sign and return.

In my case it was Bradford Council who sent a form written by an illiterate retard, I had to phone them to ask for an explanation of some of the questions and even then the staff processing the forms didn't know the answers.
martyn94
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Re: Registering to vote in the UK

Post by martyn94 »

Allan wrote:
martyn94 wrote: Extending voting rights to expats, and extending them again, were two of M Thatcher's more cynical manoeuvres (which is saying a lot). That would be a sufficient reason to steer clear, for me, even if I thought UK politics was any of my business any more.
I don't see anything cynical about it.

Most of us still have ties to the UK and family living there. I still pay taxes there, my future pension will be paid from there and my healthcare may be provided by France but I understand it is paid for by the UK.

The relationship between the UK and other European countries is of enormous importance to us and if Britain decides to leave the EU then it could potentially have a significant impact on all our lives.

Those of us dependent on income or savings in sterling are always at risk from the vagaries of the exchange rate which again is massively influenced by UK government policy.

Why on earth wouldn't I want a say?
Ariègeoise wrote:You can register online - I've just done it and it takes about 3 minutes. You need your last registered address, your passport details and your NI number.
I went through this process a few months ago. The on-line enquiry sends a request to the local authority responsible for your last address who then post you a form to sign and return.

In my case it was Bradford Council who sent a form written by an illiterate retard, I had to phone them to ask for an explanation of some of the questions and even then the staff processing the forms didn't know the answers.
I said it was cynical on M Thatcher's part: she and her minders calculated (as it turned out, correctly, for better or worse) that the expat community were overwhelmingly likely to vote for her brand of politics.

I can very well understand why expats "want a say": I am pretty much in the same boat as Allan (as he describes his situation) in terms of my exposure to the vagaries of UK politics. But that still leaves me very much less exposed than those who actually live there.

I say that even though some of us may, for once, be on the side of right and good in terms of staying in the EU. I have always found Europhobia incomprehensible: but if my former-fellow-countrymen want to go bonkers, it does not lie in my mouth to say they can't.
Allan
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Re: Registering to vote in the UK

Post by Allan »

martyn94 wrote: I said it was cynical on M Thatcher's part: she and her minders calculated (as it turned out, correctly, for better or worse) that the expat community were overwhelmingly likely to vote for her brand of politics.
It could of course have been because it was the right thing to do.

Personally, I don't see why people that pay no tax should have a say in how other peoples taxes are spent. I like the idea of 'No representation without taxation' but perhaps that might be a bit too radical.
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russell
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Re: Registering to vote in the UK

Post by russell »

Allan wrote: Personally, I don't see why people that pay no tax should have a say in how other peoples taxes are spent.
Although I agree that those who have never paid tax shouldn't have a say, how about those of us who have paid tax and NI all our working lives and are now dependent on the pensions and healthcare we have paid for?

Russell.
Allan
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Re: Registering to vote in the UK

Post by Allan »

russell wrote:
Allan wrote: Personally, I don't see why people that pay no tax should have a say in how other peoples taxes are spent.
Although I agree that those who have never paid tax shouldn't have a say, how about those of us who have paid tax and NI all our working lives and are now dependent on the pensions and healthcare we have paid for?

Russell.
Of course you should have a say, people reliant on state pensions are probably the most vulnerable as far as government policy is concerned and have continually contributed to the national economy.

It is however a misconception to think that the tax and NI that you paid went towards your pension, they went to paying the pensions of people who were retired whilst you were working.

State pensions are paid out of current taxation.

I was being a little tongue in cheek with my posting.
martyn94
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Post by martyn94 »

I think this all tends to make the point that I didn't bother to spell out. Expat voters tend to be preoccupied with a very limited range of issues: NI pensions for many of us, and income tax (a minor part of all UK taxes) for a few of us. Not forgetting winter fuel allowance. It seems to me - and obviously it's only my opinion - that this is not remotely enough to justify full voting rights for 15 weeks, let alone 15 years.

The idea that pensioners (and I am one) are especially vulnerable does not stand up to scrutiny: if any group has emerged relatively unscathed from the travails of the last few years, it is us. Which may be no great comfort if you were badly off to start with.
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Post by Merisin »

Interesting topic.

We are UK citizens and have retained our right to vote. We don't exercise our right in the local elections however. That we do here in France. To us the key points are:

- Our ancestors fought long and hard to get us the right to vote. By doing so we honour their memory.

- If the right to vote was based solely on the payment of taxes then millions who live exclusively on benefits (ie other people's tax contributions) would be disenfranchised. Which is not the case.

- If residence alone gave the right to vote then illegal immigrants should be able to vote. But they can't

- The right to vote seems to depend on citizenship or legal residence for a qualifying period.. In reality, even as ex-pats, we are impacted by a vast swathe of UK regulation and law. Either directly or indirectly. A system that subjects adult citizens to a situation where they are subject to the law, but have no choice in appointing the lawmakers, is surely a violation of basic human rights.

Mary
martyn94
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Post by martyn94 »

Merisin wrote:Interesting topic.

In reality, even as ex-pats, we are impacted by a vast swathe of UK regulation and law.

Mary
I struggle to see how that is so in my own case, even though in one respect - I have a UK-taxable pension - I am impacted more than most of us. The few remaining effects I can think of are entirely a matter of personal convenience - for example I retain a UK bank account - and must equally impact thousands of non-UK-residents and resident non-UK-nationals who never had a vote in the first place. If it is a matter of high principle that being subject to law implies the right to vote, it is a principle we breached very happily in the case of non-resident nationals up to 1985, and still do breach in many other important respects. Along with every other country in the world.
Ariègeoise
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Post by Ariègeoise »

Merisin's right - so long as we remain British citizens we can't help being impacted by UK regulation and policy, whether directly or indirectly. For example, like many (most?) of us, I have accrued pension rights there - so what happens in respect of pension policy matters to me.

However ... I find it a bit sad when people are so ready to dismiss the need to have a say on the grounds that it doesn't affect them personally. These are much bigger issues than individual ones.
martyn94
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Post by martyn94 »

Ariègeoise wrote: However ... I find it a bit sad when people are so ready to dismiss the need to have a say on the grounds that it doesn't affect them personally. These are much bigger issues than individual ones.
If that's directed at me - and I think it has to be - it reflects almost the exact opposite of my thinking. The problem with expat votes, as I see it, is that we have personal interests, but very narrow ones: it would suit me very well (financially) for example if UK income tax went down drastically and UK VAT went up to compensate. I like to think that I would be sufficiently objective to focus on the "much bigger issues". But in truth I might not be, and many people aren't. The reality is that these things are no longer, to any adequate degree, any business of mine.
Ariègeoise
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Post by Ariègeoise »

It wasn't specifically directed at you, martyn and I'm glad it doesn't reflect your thinking 8) . But it remains true that I know - or know of, or know virtually - an awful lot of people who keep stumm because they feel personally unaffected - and that way the big turds that pass for politicians can get away with believing that they're supported!

My own view, FWIW, is that I wholeheartedly wish it weren't any business of mine, but while I remain a British citizen, I still have some kind of responsibility to the country, even if I choose not to live there. And unless or until I choose to take French nationality (which I just might), the only way I have of being enfranchised beyond local and European elections is via the UK.

I'm a really apolitical person at heart, but I just can't sit back silently and watch what this shower are doing back in the UK if I have a choice not to.
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Post by Merisin »

The problem with expat votes, as I see it, is that we have personal interests, but very narrow ones:

Doesn't have to be. I am all too well aware that what goes on there impacts my family as well as myself. Which informs my judgement.


Mary
martyn94
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Post by martyn94 »

Merisin wrote:The problem with expat votes, as I see it, is that we have personal interests, but very narrow ones:

Doesn't have to be. I am all too well aware that what goes on there impacts my family as well as myself. Which informs my judgement.


Mary
Sure it does. But those of them that are adults already have a vote: there is no principled reason why they should have yours as well in favour of whatever their interests may be. When I lived there, I had just the one.
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