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I understand what you're saying Allan.....but for something like telly, my attitude is 'I'm all right Jack'. It's working for me and that's as far as I want to look.
If it was money laundering or people trafficking, then of course that would be different.......but until somebody can prove to me that my subscription IS funding something dangerous, immoral, harmful, I will continue to enjoy Homeland!!

Webdoc wrote:Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38906561

Fact said it had co-ordinated its "day of action" on behalf of the Premier League and subscription television providers BT, Sky and Virgin Media.

So the Content Owners are flexing their muscles.

See i told you earlier in this thread that selling "Fully Loaded Kodi" boxes was not legal (test case in May to confirm this for UK law) these are the one's mostly found on Ebay!!

Kate - you don't need the subscription at all - you get more without a subscription

I don't really want to prolong the debate on this because, as I've already said, it's an individual's decision about how far they are prepared to go bending or breaking the rules.

But the point here is not really that a particular form of hardware is illegal, it's that the copyright owners of the media (Sky, BT et.) disapprove of people watching their content without paying - and the Law is on their side.

Webdoc wrote:I don't really want to prolong the debate on this because, as I've already said, it's an individual's decision about how far they are prepared to go bending or breaking the rules.

But the point here is not really that a particular form of hardware is illegal, it's that the copyright owners of the media (Sky, BT et.) disapprove of people watching their content without paying - and the Law is on their side.

So you say they can't watch "Homeland"? Political correctness run mad! So bad!!

https://torrentfreak.com/spanish-police ... ss-170210/

As i said earlier about the MAG Box with subscription sellers - This happened in September but has only been released. No refunds for the customers.

For all those streaming UKTV then this was officially published by FACT Federation Against Copyright Theft in the UK

FACT claims that, "if you are accessing premium pay-for content, like Sky, BT Sport and Virgin Media, and you do not have a subscription with an official provider then this is unlawful access".

However, it is unclear exactly what law you would be breaking.

If you were to download an illegally copied file, that would constitute copyright infringement. However, when you stream something online, the file is stored only temporarily on your computer - and temporary copies are exempt from copyright laws.

In a landmark ruling i 2014, the Court of Justice of the European Union ruled that internet users who look at copyrighted material online aren't breaking the law by doing so, citing Article 5.1 of the EU Copyright Directive.

It stated that copies of copyrighted material that appear "on the users computer screen" and "in the internet 'cache' of that computer's hard disk" are "temporary" and "may therefore be made without the authorisation of the copyright holders".

That should clear up the streaming issue - this is why they are persuing sellers of subscriptions for TV like webtv4me - uktvfrance - expatvision etc etc. as they are profiting from these sources unlawfully.

End user streaming will not get penalised by the law.

I want to watch/download the UK TV that is available via Freeview. I am quite prepared to pay a resonable sum to do so. Let us say the equivalent of the UK licence fee. While Britain remained in the EU there was a possibilty that this might happen one day.

So now I pay a small sum to a US company who make it possible. Not the BBC, ITV, Ch4, Ch5 etc.

Absolute madness and does not make commercial sense! On the other hand I can listen to the radio quite legally!

Gus

Gus Morris wrote:I want to watch/download the UK TV that is available via Freeview. I am quite prepared to pay a resonable sum to do so. Let us say the equivalent of the UK licence fee. While Britain remained in the EU there was a possibilty that this might happen one day.

So now I pay a small sum to a US company who make it possible. Not the BBC, ITV, Ch4, Ch5 etc.

Absolute madness and does not make commercial sense! On the other hand I can listen to the radio quite legally!

Gus

I would be prepared to do that too. But Netflix (I assume you are referring to them) are not just selling to Brit expats but to the whole French market. And they have the advantage of actually owning the IP they are trying to sell. I doubt that it would make much commercial sense for the BBC (etc) to turn backwards somersaults to serve UK expats, and it would be political poison, back in the UK, to be seen spending time and money on it.

I think we have to get our heads round the fact that we are nobody's priority: if I can get to stay here without filling in too many forms, and ideally keep my health cover, the telly can go hang.

And I'd also go easy on the exclamation marks unless I were trying to channel Donald Trump.

BBC iPlayer is going to expand -

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... fing-plans

- and I imagine that will include a subscription service for overseas users.

Sky is launching an internet-only service too (i.e. no dish required) which might also permit non-UK residents to subscribe legally.

These content-providers want your money so I'm sure they'll find a way to enable people to subscribe legally. There's clearly a market and they'll want to tap into it.

I still pay my License in uk Also subscribe to B T but when in France can't get either.

Webdoc wrote:BBC iPlayer is going to expand -

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... fing-plans

- and I imagine that will include a subscription service for overseas users.

You may be right, but I don't see how you got that from the story. It was about making iplayer the best online service "in the UK", and about closing down access to it by using a sign-in.

Webdoc wrote:BBC iPlayer is going to expand -

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... fing-plans

- and I imagine that will include a subscription service for overseas users.

You may be right, but I don't see how you got that from the story. It was about making iplayer the best online service "in the UK", and about closing down access to it by using a sign-in.

Admittedly it's an assumption but the BBC already supplement their falling income by selling content abroad via their "commercial arm" BBC Worldwide. So if they're going to invest heavily in expanding their on-line content they would be bonkers not to try and monetise it.

I guess the signing-in part is the beginnings of having a free account if you're a UK Licence Fee payer and the option of introducing a subscription service for viewers worldwide.

I don't think I'm being fanciful - it has to come.

This article outlines recent agreement within the EU - tho' heaven knows how Brexit will impact on the UK's position going forward

http://www.digitaltveurope.net/657851/e ... rtability/

Copyright and obligations to rights' owners can be incredibly complex (says she who once had to clear a piece of classical music for streaming globally. It was out of copyright in the UK and most other countries - but not all. Incredibly, in France, years of military service can be added to the copyright window.)

But what really bugs me about this whole discussion is that broadcasters spend many, many millions acquiring and creating content for their channels - but how many of the streaming services being promoted to expats pay anything for the content they happily exploit?

http://www.whatsontv.co.uk/news/let-it- ... ne-450876/

Are you sure that's the right link ?!?!

Oooops.

Comment above corrected to show the right link.

Thanks Andrew..... gawd, that could have been very embarrassing.

Webdoc wrote:Admittedly it's an assumption but the BBC already supplement their falling income by selling content abroad via their "commercial arm" BBC Worldwide. So if they're going to invest heavily in expanding their on-line content they would be bonkers not to try and monetise it.

I guess the signing-in part is the beginnings of having a free account if you're a UK Licence Fee payer and the option of introducing a subscription service for viewers worldwide.

I don't think I'm being fanciful - it has to come.

It has already come, and then gone again, for lack of demand: details are here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_iPl ... ailability

I tried it briefly: the programmes available were pretty thin. It may yet come round again, but with luck I will no longer have the least idea what UK TV programmes I might possibly want to watch (apart from D Attenborough, obviously, but I can always buy the DVDs).

rainbow wrote:I still pay my License in uk Also subscribe to B T but when in France can't get either.

Assuming you have reasonable broadband in France then you could buy a Slingbox and watch everything that you watch in the UK

I have a slingbox that I don't use anymore if anybody wants it.

I made one of these:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33548728

and it works amazingly well - and all for under £30 with no buffering or subscription. I watch TV in France just as if I was in the UK, plus I can access all my work files on my home system. And as a bonus it makes using public wifi ultra-secure for on-line banking etc.

It can be implemented on any device - PC, android box, ipad, mobile phone.

It's rather complicated to set up but I'm happy to offer general advice.

Webdoc wrote:I made one of these:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33548728

and it works amazingly well - and all for under £30 with no buffering or subscription. I watch TV in France just as if I was in the UK, plus I can access all my work files on my home system. And as a bonus it makes using public wifi ultra-secure for on-line banking etc.

It can be implemented on any device - PC, android box, ipad, mobile phone.

It's rather complicated to set up but I'm happy to offer general advice.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. All I need now is a gaff in the UK for £30. That said, there's probably the making of an Airbnb-type fortune here: if you've got spare bandwidth in the U.K., you sell it to me (to watch tv in France) for a small commission. If it takes off, I'll settle for a few founders' shares.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. All I need now is a gaff in the UK for £30. That said, there's probably the making of an Airbnb-type fortune here: if you've got spare bandwidth in the U.K., you sell it to me (to watch tv in France) for a small commission. If it takes off, I'll settle for a few founders' shares.

For those without a UK gaff you just need a friend or relative who don't mind a tiny box plugged into the back of their router. Plus they could benefit from it when they're away from home too. In theory (bandwidth permitting) you can have umpteen different users at the same time.

For me, as I already pay my subs for the BBC, Netflix, VirginMedia etc., I don't feel too bad about using the service this way while I'm abroad. Permitting others to tap into your system to watch UK TV is a slightly different matter.

There's also some security implications. Anyone using this system is "inside" your home network so in theory could access files on your home computer. Also if they did something really dodgy on the Net it's the UK front door that Mr Plod would be knocking on, not the ex-pat one.

These concerns aside, it's an excellent system and I've already worked out a way to clone what I've done as a small enterprise, if I can be bothered.

I've found 2 different sets of people offering this setup on Ebay (search for VPN) but having done it myself I don't find them as open as they might be about the potential drawbacks.

Interesting exercise Webdoc but it seems to be a lot of trouble just to get one VPN at your UK address. How does it make public wifi ultra-secure? Does it encrypt the traffic?

I'll stick with paying a modest fee for a commercial VPN which gives access to about 700 servers world wide including about 50 in the UK.

Russell.

By far the easiest option is the commercial software-app VPN. I've never used it myself but I understood that buffering is sometimes an issue. It's said that the BBC etc. are clamping down on commercial VPNs - I guess they're easy to spot because hundreds of people are apparently accessing from the same IP address.

And of course you miss out on the deep, deep joy (only experienced by a real Geek) of building one yourself, with the knowledge of the multiple layers of encryption involved and that you are the only person on the planet who can access the system.

The encryption does make public wifi much more secure, and one also has access to files withing one's home network - useful if you run a business etc.

First of all congratulations to Webdoc for his technical achievement.

I cannot however see this as a widespread solution for a number of reasons and I would be interested to hear how Webdoc overcame the problems that I mention.

Firstly, the solution could not work with widely used ADSL, simply because the standard transmit speed of ADSL is nowhere near fast enough to use with on-line television.

Pretty well all domestic internet solutions have a single external iP address, so in order to access his VPN server, the router needs to know how that VPN traffic is to be forwarded to the VPN server.

Since the VPN server has only one network interface then it needs to have 2 iP addresses on the same interface.

Neither of the last 2 are insurmountable but they are beyond the capabilities of most domestic routers which generally have limited configurability

So, a fun solution but I don't think it will get universally adopted.

Just a note on spotting VPNs, if the criterion was multiple users from the same address then they would end up blocking most hotels and universities and in fact anywhere with an enterprise or campus network. So fortunately for the rest of us it is not a viable option

Thanks for the congratulations. I'm sure you can tell from my tone that I'm a bit smug about it! Actually I was amazed that it worked, and worked first time too.

I accept that this setup is a bit niche but it would suit some people.

I didn't personally overcome any problems, I just followed carefully a step-by-step guide that required hours of command-line programming.

It does work with French ADSL - it's been working at my house for over a year. And Orange sell a package that includes TV via the telephone wires. I might be wrong but I understood that a 2MB/S link was adequate although I'm happy to be corrected. (I get 12MB/S on my connection.)

Now the techy bit: traffic to and from the VPN server is handled by port-forwarding in the router. How the VPN software installed on the Raspberry Pi does its magic is beyond my understanding but it clearly does, via one RJ45 cable. The multiple layers of protection are impressive. The "client end" runs the OpenVPN app requiring both a software key and a password.

I love the challenge, and I learn a lot (of useless stuff!) during the implementation.

Webdoc wrote:
It does work with French ADSL - it's been working at my house for over a year. And Orange sell a package that includes TV via the telephone wires. I might be wrong but I understood that a 2MB/S link was adequate although I'm happy to be corrected. (I get 12MB/S on my connection.)

It isn't the French ADSL that would concern me, it is the UK end. ADSL by its very nature uploads at a much slower speed than it receives. Normally this doesn't matter because in the UK, it is the download speed that is significant. In this case however you are re-sending whatever is downloaded onwards to France.

I suspect that you must have a decent connection in the UK, but older connections just could not work

Webdoc wrote:Thanks for the congratulations. I'm sure you can tell from my tone that I'm a bit smug about it! Actually I was amazed that it worked, and worked first time too.

I accept that this setup is a bit niche but it would suit some people.

I didn't personally overcome any problems, I just followed carefully a step-by-step guide that required hours of command-line programming.

It does work with French ADSL - it's been working at my house for over a year. And Orange sell a package that includes TV via the telephone wires. I might be wrong but I understood that a 2MB/S link was adequate although I'm happy to be corrected. (I get 12MB/S on my connection.)

Now the techy bit: traffic to and from the VPN server is handled by port-forwarding in the router. How the VPN software installed on the Raspberry Pi does its magic is beyond my understanding but it clearly does, via one RJ45 cable. The multiple layers of protection are impressive. The "client end" runs the OpenVPN app requiring both a software key and a password.

I love the challenge, and I learn a lot (of useless stuff!) during the implementation.

Smug? Moi?

Webdoc wrote:
I didn't personally overcome any problems, I just followed carefully a step-by-step guide that required hours of command-line programming.

Sounds like fun, at least as an alternative to root-canal work. The better answer, obviously, is to use some obscure brew of Linux.

martyn94 wrote: Sounds like fun, at least as an alternative to root-canal work. The better answer, obviously, is to use some obscure brew of Linux.

The Rspberry Pi uses a not so obscure version of Linux
Russell