Internet TV for Alpine rental property

StanBowles · Post by **StanBowles** » Mon 23 Feb 2015 14:37

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and am looking for a solution to UK TV reception at my apartment in the French Alps. The satellite dish on the roof used to recieve UK freeview channels but now they are very unreliable (sometimes present but more often not). So I've decided to get a broadband line in and try and sort out an internet TV solution. The think is the apartment is rented out to holiday guests with minimal or no visits from me so I'm looking for something that would be reliable and really user-friendly for the guests. The ideal thing would be an internet TV package that comes with the broadband package but I see the French packages don't include the UK freeview channels and are limited to the likes of BBC World. So I'm thinking of going down the Slingbox route with a slingbox here in my house in the UK hooked up to my apartment in France. Has anyone else got experience of that? What about other recommendations for a reliable and user-friendly solution, bearing in mind I am not on hand to fix it if it goes wrong (although do have a local housekeeper who could help).

Regards

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Mon 23 Feb 2015 16:43

StanBowles wrote:Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and am looking for a solution to UK TV reception at my apartment in the French Alps. The satellite dish on the roof used to recieve UK freeview channels but now they are very unreliable (sometimes present but more often not). So I've decided to get a broadband line in and try and sort out an internet TV solution. The think is the apartment is rented out to holiday guests with minimal or no visits from me so I'm looking for something that would be reliable and really user-friendly for the guests. The ideal thing would be an internet TV package that comes with the broadband package but I see the French packages don't include the UK freeview channels and are limited to the likes of BBC World. So I'm thinking of going down the Slingbox route with a slingbox here in my house in the UK hooked up to my apartment in France. Has anyone else got experience of that? What about other recommendations for a reliable and user-friendly solution, bearing in mind I am not on hand to fix it if it goes wrong (although do have a local housekeeper who could help).

Regards

It isn't quite that easy. Slingbox comes in 2 main forms, with or without a tuner, assuming you don't want the renters in France changing the channel on your TV then you will need the Pro version which comes with a built in Tuner.

Unfortunately the receiving end has to run the SlingPlayer software and the devices that do this are much the same as those used to watch Internet TV and are no easier to use so you gain nothing in simplicity.

The exception is the WD TV Media Player that lets you use a simple remote control to change channels, this is the closest you will get to a real TV experience.

Unfortunately the WD TV isn't much use for anything else.

Personally, I would configure an iPod/iPad with a Smart DNS service and install all the UK TV apps on it. Then connect an Apple TV to your TV and write some simple instructions. Most 5 year olds can operate an iPad these days.

If you decide to go the Slingbox route then success will be determined by the UPLOAD speed of your home connection.

Slingbox is a good robust solution and is particularly good if your receiving bandwidth is limited.

http://uk.slingbox.com/go/slingbox-prohd

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=1270

StanBowles · Post by **StanBowles** » Mon 23 Feb 2015 17:09

Allan, thanks for your reply which is very helpful. Because I've never used Apple, I'm slightly wary of going down that route and want to minimise any extra kit (like ipads) lying around which could be tempting for guests to walk off with. Your reply reminded me of a few things that I spotted when I first looked at this a few weeks back.

1. The Slingbox route/avoiding guests changing the channels on my home TV. Thankfully, at home I have a couple of digital aerials and some spare aerial sockets and a spare digital tuner so I figure I can set it up here in a way that doesn't interfere with what we are watching at home.

2. Slingbox route/remote control of the receiving box at the French apartment end. I'm thinking of using the Slingbox at the UK end with a Roku at the French end. The Rokus come with a traditional remote control and I hope this will be easy enough for guests to use. I also note your WD TV suggestion - I did look at that and thought the Roku might offer more.

3. One question from the above - I realise I am not clear whether the Slingbox/Roku solution will work without some form of VPN invisible browsing service. Do you know? Regardless of whether it requires the VPN thing or not, I can't work out if it is likely to be better than option 4 below.

4. Instead of getting a Slingbox, I could set up a UK registered Roku box in the French apartment and also subscribe to and set up UK location VPN service. I have yet to install broadband in the apartment and I am told that, if I choose the Freebox Revolution, it can be configured to be used with VPN services without the need to buy a second router.

Apart from the actual costs, I can't work out the likely operational pros and cons of option 4 above vs the Slingbox option.

martyn94 · Post by **martyn94** » Mon 23 Feb 2015 18:20

StanBowles wrote:Allan, thanks for your reply which is very helpful. Because I've never used Apple, I'm slightly wary of going down that route and want to minimise any extra kit (like ipads) lying around which could be tempting for guests to walk off with. Your reply reminded me of a few things that I spotted when I first looked at this a few weeks back.

1. The Slingbox route/avoiding guests changing the channels on my home TV. Thankfully, at home I have a couple of digital aerials and some spare aerial sockets and a spare digital tuner so I figure I can set it up here in a way that doesn't interfere with what we are watching at home.

2. Slingbox route/remote control of the receiving box at the French apartment end. I'm thinking of using the Slingbox at the UK end with a Roku at the French end. The Rokus come with a traditional remote control and I hope this will be easy enough for guests to use. I also note your WD TV suggestion - I did look at that and thought the Roku might offer more.

3. One question from the above - I realise I am not clear whether the Slingbox/Roku solution will work without some form of VPN invisible browsing service. Do you know? Regardless of whether it requires the VPN thing or not, I can't work out if it is likely to be better than option 4 below.

4. Instead of getting a Slingbox, I could set up a UK registered Roku box in the French apartment and also subscribe to and set up UK location VPN service. I have yet to install broadband in the apartment and I am told that, if I choose the Freebox Revolution, it can be configured to be used with VPN services without the need to buy a second router.

Apart from the actual costs, I can't work out the likely operational pros and cons of option 4 above vs the Slingbox option.

You can certainly set up a "smart DNS" service on a Freebox (preferable to, and cheaper than, a VPN for most purposes) and it will work with iplayer on a Roku box. But the simplicity of the Roku remote is a mixed blessing when it has to do quite complicated things which your guests will not be used to.

I would go with Allan's ipad (etc) plus Apple TV. A secondhand fourth-generation ipod (no earlier) will do the business, and is old/cheap enough not to be very nickable. And it can of course do lots of other things that your guests could find useful: I use mine most often as a kitchen timer.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Mon 23 Feb 2015 18:24

1) If you have a spare Tuner in the UK then you can get away without buying the Pro version although having an integrated tuner is obviously a more elegant solution.

2) The Roku remote control definitely will not control a Slingbox, it simply starts the app. You then need an iPad or smartphone running the SlingPlayer app to make it all work.

3) You do not need a VPN to use a Slingbox, whatever the receiving device

4) Running a vpn on the Freebox doesn't sound a very good solution. Unless it is a sophisticated Vpn then all traffic would go via it so you would probably mess up French TV and any telephone service on it. You would find a Smart Dns service such as overplay.net much simpler to use. As I recall, you cannot configure the network connection on a Roku but you can buy a suitable router for around £20. Roku runs UK TV catch-up services but does not show live TV. There is a Roku Filmon app available in the USA but unfortunately not in the UK

Hope this helps

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Mon 23 Feb 2015 18:33

martyn94 wrote:
You can certainly set up a "smart DNS" service on a Freebox (preferable to, and cheaper than, a VPN for most purposes) and it will work with iplayer on a Roku box. But the simplicity of the Roku remote is a mixed blessing when it has to do quite complicated things which your guests will not be used to.

Martyn

You may know something that I don't as I don't have a Freebox but whenever I have looked at them for other people the DNS servers could not be changed. You can of course change the DNS settings on connected devices but in the case of Roku they are not configurable.

Perhaps you will clarify if you have succeeded in changing them at a Router level

StanBowles · Post by **StanBowles** » Mon 23 Feb 2015 18:54

It was this company that I spoke to re the VPN
http://www.ibvpn.com

they told me I would probably need to buy a second router as the VPN service would not work with the French ISP's router on its own. But would a second router still mess up the main router settings. I was looking at free.fr and maybe having the normal internet TV service offered by free but then linking the Roku to the second router but I'm woefully ignorant on the technicalities of all this. But they also alerted me the the free router can work with a VPN service and they directed me to this:
http://www.ibvpn.com/billing/knowledgeb ... ution.html

Thanks Martin and Allan - your posts are leading me to investigate the Apple TV route a bit more than I had.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Mon 23 Feb 2015 19:22

StanBowles wrote:It was this company that I spoke to re the VPN
http://www.ibvpn.com

they told me I would probably need to buy a second router as the VPN service would not work with the French ISP's router on its own. But would a second router still mess up the main router settings. I was looking at free.fr and maybe having the normal internet TV service offered by free but then linking the Roku to the second router but I'm woefully ignorant on the technicalities of all this. But they also alerted me the the free router can work with a VPN service and they directed me to this:
http://www.ibvpn.com/billing/knowledgeb ... ution.html

Thanks Martin and Allan - your posts are leading me to investigate the Apple TV route a bit more than I had.

From what you have said, I don't think Roku does what you want as it cannot show live UK TV but even if it did their proposed VPN looks a hideous solution.

A second router wouldn't interfere with the normal operation of a Freebox but you only need one if using a device such as Roku that cannot be configured.

Thinking more about it, I believe that the Freebox supports AirPlay so you wouldn't even need an Apple TV.

Forget VPNs, just spend €4 a month on Overplay.net Smart DNS, it works a treat.

Incidentally, for watching catch-up UK TV, a £10 Now TV box works just as well as a Roku

StanBowles · Post by **StanBowles** » Mon 23 Feb 2015 20:03

Allan/Martyn - all really useful stuff. Overplay.net looks good. So bear with me - just a few more thoughts/questions. My research had taken me to Slingbox as perhaps the most surefire way of getting live UK TV relayed onto my French apartment. I think I'm still of the view that it seems the most guaranteed way.

But I realised that I needed it to be viewable on the living room TV for guests rather than just on a laptop so that led me to Roku as the Slingbox site says the following:
The SlingPlayer app is currently not supported on any smart TVs. However you can watch your Slingbox on a TV using a connected device, such as a Roku, NETGEAR NeoTV or WD TV Live. The SlingPlayer app is available on these devices - and others! For more information on SlingPlayer for connected devices, please go to http://www.slingbox.com/go/spcd.

So, from what I can see, if I invested in a Slingbox and a Roku (or one of the others) then I could get live UK TV without any need for VPN services or smart dns. But, if I also combined them with smart dns, I would get the additional functionality of the Roku for access to catch-up TV services such as BBC iplayer. Does that seem right? I remain confused about whether the Roku (without a Slingbox but with smart dns) could get live UK TV via ITV player, C4 player and BBC iplayer. I note that you say it can't - I am sure you are right but not sure why.

An alternative to the above might be the following:
Overplay.net smart dns service combined with Apple TV. But am I right in thinking that services like Apple TV and Amazon Fire don't give access to live BBC, C4 and ITV?

So, in summary, I'm inclining still towards Slingbox plus Roku plus the recommendation of overplay.net's smart dns service. Is the smart dns service easy to use with an Orange.fr or Fee.fr router or again do I need to look at second router options?

StanBowles · Post by **StanBowles** » Mon 23 Feb 2015 21:18

Martyn - do you have specific experience of setting up smart dns on a Freebox revolution box without it messing up any other of the freebox fuctionality (especially streaming free's own TV service)?

I've just spoken to overplay.net and they suggest configuring a second router with the smartdns settings as they weren't sure the ISP router would support it (mind you they didn't specifically know about organge.fr or free.fr routers).

They also explained to me that Roku does not allow changing DNS servers, but I could still use it with smartdns by setting up up smartdns on my router instead. They said the WD TV box does support smartdns but I guess it's better to have it on the router and, thereby, make it available to all devices in the network.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Tue 24 Feb 2015 02:31

Stan

You didn't read my earlier post. YOU CAN WATCH A SLINGBOX ON A ROKU BUT YOU STILL NEED AN iPAD OR A SMARTPHONE TO CONTROL IT E,G. CHANGE CHANNELS YOU CANNOT DO THIS WITH THE ROKU REMOTE.

From the Slingbox website

SlingPlayer on Roku streamers
The latest version of SlingPlayer for iPhone/iPod touch or Android smartphones adds Roku streamer support to extend your complete living room HDTV experience to another TV. Simply use SlingPlayer and send live TV to the big screen. Now you can enjoy all your programming at home in up to 1080p HD on a second TV in your house, the vacation getaway, college dorm room, or wherever you have a Roku streamer connected

The Apple TV, for the purposes of watching TV simply allows you to view on the big screen an app running on an iPad/pod/phone using a system called Airplay. I believe that the TV receiver supplied with a Freebox supports Airplay and so lets you view an app on an iPad etc with nothing else required.
If you used that setup then the only place you need to configure Smart dns is the iPad....

Remember that if the Slingbox is connected to a tuner in the UK then all the facilities of that tuner are available remotely, so if you use a tuner with catch-up TV then it will be available in France through the slingplayer.

Martyn will correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe you can directly configure smartdns directly on a Freebox but it is trivial to set it up on most devices.

StanBowles · Post by **StanBowles** » Tue 24 Feb 2015 09:23

Thanks Allan. Yes, I did pick up that point about the traditional remote not being able to be used in either configuration.

And I still think your apple route could be a good one. But I remain confused, partly because the Slingbox website is not the best in terms of info. The wording on their website talks about Roku streaming support on the ipod. So would I need a Roku box in that set-up or would I simply buy and apple tv box and configure airplay on the ipod - in that case where does Roku come in? Elsewhere on their website, they indicate that you can only do it through a box like Roku or WD TV so that is why I was partly remaining fixed on Roku.

I will see if I can get an answer from Slingbox. If I can get it to can work by buying an apple tv box, an ipad and putting the airplay and slingplayer app on it, that could be attractive.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Tue 24 Feb 2015 09:49

As far as Roku is concerned, when you use it with a Slingbox then it behaves much like an Apple TV, it just shows on the screen whatever is received by the Slingplayer app running on a smartphone.

As the owner of a Slingbox, a Roku, an Apple TV, an iPad and a WD TV, I can assure you that Slingbox will not give you any different answer.

You don't need both an Apple TV and a Roku, they are alternatives.

The WD TV is self contained, it does not need a smartphone

Slingbox works very well on an iPad connected to an Apple TV, the iPad essentially acts as the remote control.

If you use Free as your ISP then you get 2 boxes, the Freebox router and a box that connects to your TV, that TV box also supports AirPlay potentially removing the need for an Apple TV

I spent some time last year researching the Slingbox for the use of an elderly gentleman that needed Subtitles. I have tried the Slingbox with a multitude of players and concluded that for ultimate simplicity the WD TV was the best option but as I said earlier, most 5 year olds can work an iPad.
Essentially you get an on-screen representation of a remote control.

If you decide to get a Slingbox and use an external tuner then make sure it is supported. You can configure a universal remote for use with pretty well any tuner but it is a bit of a pain.

neil mitchell · Post by **neil mitchell** » Tue 24 Feb 2015 09:53

Hi Stan.
You have my sympathy, I went through exactly all of this 2 years ago. The guys on this forum are awesome, I tried some of the suggestions and they all worked in some way or other. The best thing though was that my level of IT/Internet competence went up dramatically, I'm no expert but at least I understand what's being said now!!
I eventually bit the bullet and paid for an IPTV service. My reasons are similar to yours, I have a wife and 4 grown up daughters (with families) who use our house and I needed something simple.
I use UKExPatTV. They have been very reliable and I'm happy with them. You buy there MAG250 IPTV box plus a wireless dongle (you can just use a cable if your wireless router is close by). You just plug it into your TV with an HDMI lead and switch it on. It takes about 2 mins to boot up and you're up and running. The box is about 5"x5" and just sits under the TV with the DVD Player etc. You operate it from a remote control which is exactly like a normal TV Remote. It's really simple, an idiot can do it (I do).
They do a range of packages but as we're not here all of the time I use the PAYG which is Eur22 for 30 days access to all UK Freeview channels plus 14 day catchup. You pay via Paypal and access is available when you specify. I've had it for two years without a single problem and at least 6 of my friends around us here have it too.
It goes against my grain to be paying for something which I could get free but there is a cost/simplicity consideration to be made and in my view it's well worth it.
Good Luck.

StanBowles · Post by **StanBowles** » Tue 24 Feb 2015 09:59

Yes, I'm sure you are right. The prospect of trying to contact Slingbox did not fill me with excitement. I am greatly encouraged by the fact that you've actually got hands-on experience of this kit yourself. That is really helpful. Out of interest, what was it about the WD TV that gave it the 'ultimate simplicity'. Knowing guests as I do, and wanting to prevent calls of 'I can't get the TV working' kind from them, 'ultimate simplicity' sounds very good to me (although I like the 'apple' route as obviously lots of people know apple and are familiar with it - even if I am not).

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Tue 24 Feb 2015 10:08

StanBowles wrote:Yes, I'm sure you are right. The prospect of trying to contact Slingbox did not fill me with excitement. I am greatly encouraged by the fact that you've actually got hands-on experience of this kit yourself. That is really helpful. Out of interest, what was it about the WD TV that gave it the 'ultimate simplicity'. Knowing guests as I do, and wanting to prevent calls of 'I can't get the TV working' kind from them, 'ultimate simplicity' sounds very good to me (although I like the 'apple' route as obviously lots of people know apple and are familiar with it - even if I am not).

Very simply, channel up and channel down buttons. They are the closest you will get to a conventional TV

martyn94 · Post by **martyn94** » Tue 24 Feb 2015 10:50

Allan wrote:
martyn94 wrote:
You can certainly set up a "smart DNS" service on a Freebox (preferable to, and cheaper than, a VPN for most purposes) and it will work with iplayer on a Roku box. But the simplicity of the Roku remote is a mixed blessing when it has to do quite complicated things which your guests will not be used to.
Martyn

You may know something that I don't as I don't have a Freebox but whenever I have looked at them for other people the DNS servers could not be changed. You can of course change the DNS settings on connected devices but in the case of Roku they are not configurable.

Perhaps you will clarify if you have succeeded in changing them at a Router level

There are so many different options that I've played with that it's conceivable that I've misremembered what worked and what didn't. And I'm not currently in a position to check. A little googling suggests that changing the DNS was impossible in the past but isn't now (on a freebox revolution with current firmware). But that may be wrong. I will report further in a few months time.

StanBowles · Post by **StanBowles** » Tue 24 Feb 2015 11:10

Thanks everyone - Allan, Martyn and Neil.

Neil - I had a think about UKexpatTV. Because I'd been costing it per annum (for an apartment that is only occupied part-Summer and for four ski months), I'd ruled it out but the PAYG makes it more economic. But I think the conclusion I reached was that the Slingbox route gave me the same thing (if not more) with perhaps more certainty and minimal ongoing cost. But it's a close call.

Allan - just one last thing to check - see point 5 below (famous last words). In order of action, I plan to:
1. Buy a Slingbox (probably with an integrated tuner) and set it up here in the UK and familiarise myself with it.
2. See if I can stream it with pure AirPlay on my daughter's iphone.
3. Then invest in either a Roku or Apple Tv box and see if I can stream the Slingbox to a different TV in the UK, again using my daughter's iphone (or indeed my android devices). If it all works ok then I'll get a cheap second hand ipad for use by guests in the French apartment.
4. Once I've got the kit up and running here, then I will take it out to France and set it up there later in the year (having ordered freebox broadband and had it installed in the meantime).
5. My only remaining thing to check is to confirm my understanding whether smart dns is necessary at all to stream the slingbox in the French apartment. My understanding is that it may not be (although it is desirable anyway to enable browsing of other online content - and that, if I do that, then it is only a matter of changing dns settings on the ipad rather than changing the freebox router settings).

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Tue 24 Feb 2015 12:52

StanBowles wrote:
Allan - just one last thing to check - see point 5 below (famous last words).
5. My only remaining thing to check is to confirm my understanding whether smart dns is necessary at all to stream the slingbox in the French apartment. My understanding is that it may not be (although it is desirable anyway to enable browsing of other online content - and that, if I do that, then it is only a matter of changing dns settings on the ipad rather than changing the freebox router settings).

SmartDNS is NOT required for Slingbox. It is only needed for geographically restricted applications such as BBC iPlayer.

If you decide to use SmartDNS then with Overplay you can subscribe month by month and yes, it is simply a case of typing in the DNS server addresses on the iPad.

Before following your action plan, have you checked what speed connection you can get in France, if it is a good speed then there are plenty of apps that will run on an iPad to get UK TV without going to the expense of a Slingbox at all.

If you decide to go the Slingbox route then Roku is in my opinion a poor solution since it still requires something like an iPad to operate it but then doesn't let you use any of the other facilities of the iPad. To use a Roku you would need a second router and a SmartDNS and I cant think of anything that you can do on a Roku that you can't do on an iPad

You started by saying that you wanted the least technical solution but these days most people can work an iPad.

You seem confused by Airplay, it is the technology that allows an iPad/Pod/Phone to transmit video and sound wirelessly to an Apple TV box so you can test it on your daughters iPhone unless you also have an Apple TV.

The fact that Airplay works is universally acknowledged so you could test that it works just by taking the Phone to a friends house. The slingplayer app lets you watch it either on an iPhone/Pad/Pod screen or by using Airplay on an Apple TV connected to a television.

SlingBox doesn't use Airplay, it is the phone or Pad that is using Airplay to send the picture/sound from the Slingbox app to an Apple TV

If you are going to use Free as your ISP then you can manage without an Apple TV or Roku as their TV box has Airplay built in and will emulate an Apple TV in that regard.

StanBowles · Post by **StanBowles** » Tue 24 Feb 2015 13:02

Cheers Allan. Yes, I understand the airplay facility is for the iphone or ipad. I've taken the first step now by ordering a relatively cheap Slingbox Pro off ebay. Over the weekend, I'll set that up here at home together with airplay and familiarise myself with it. Like most things, it's practice and familiarity that brings understanding. Upload speeds here are fine and I know from a neighbour in France that download speeds for a neighbouring building in the same apartment complex seem to be fine as he is running apple TV and doing a similar thing witrh internet TV.

Santiago · Post by **Santiago** » Wed 25 Feb 2015 13:34

Can I just say that this is an excellent thread. Perhaps the most clear and concise one we have had on the complex world of internet UK TV.

Thankyou.

StanBowles · Post by **StanBowles** » Wed 25 Feb 2015 13:43

Yes, it can be a complicated subject to those like me who haven't yet used these gadgets. Can I add a big thanks, particularly to Allan, for guiding me and others through it. One of my French apartment neighbours is going to give me an invite to watch his Slingbox streaming from Holland tonight so I will get a first chance to experience it. I will report back.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Sun 01 Mar 2015 03:51

In an earlier post I said that you can't watch live TV on a Roku. It seems that ITV has just released a new version of ITV player that does allow this.

I don't believe any of the other channels have followed suit but I will check when I get the chance

StanBowles · Post by **StanBowles** » Sun 01 Mar 2015 12:24

I now have a Roku box that I've set up here in the UK to see what it is like and can confirm that it has ITV player and that all live ITV channels are on the ITV player. The Roku also has BBCiplayer, 4OD and Demand5. These are all good but I think they are all catch-up and don't have an option for live channels.

I also got the chance during the week to test a neighbour's Slingbox. He has it set up in his home in Holland to 'sling' to his TV in his French Alps apartment which neighbours mine. I had the 'surreal' experience of watching live BBC2 stremed from his home in Holland via the slingplayer app installed on my Nexus 7 tablet onto my Roku box and onto my TV. Picture quality was excellent, particularly when I used a HDMI lead between the Roku and the TV. I had difficulty using the channel guide and channel change function but this is probably due to me doing the wrong thing rather than it being a problem. I'm taking delivery of my own Slingbox during the week which I will set up with the Roku and slingplayer apps and report back to the forum on how it goes.

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