BBC to switch to 2e Thursday am.

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montgolfiere
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BBC to switch to 2e Thursday am.

Post by montgolfiere » Tue 04 Feb 2014 19:45

The BBC Channels will 'Migrate' to 2e early Thursday morning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/news/news_item25.html

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Astra 2e

Post by JRH66300 » Sat 15 Feb 2014 12:04

I spoke with a friend in Palma Majorca this morning and he still has channels from Astra, he has a 1.2 m dish with an in-line amplifier between the LNB and a Freesat box. Is this a solution to avoid 1.5/1.8 m dishes in our area . For example a 1.2 m dish plus an in-line amplifier which costs less than €10. The Astra 2e footprint in fringe areas is a mystery and we in the PO are several hundred Kms north than Palma, which is a positive but further west which may be negative regarding the footprint lobe. Any comments from the Sat experts out there. Thanks

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ASTRA 2E

Post by malcolm4664 » Sat 15 Feb 2014 13:02

DON'T PANIC!!!!

Some BBC and ITV TV and Radio stations have reappeared this am with very good reception. Look up 900 as well as 100+ stations for TV.
Astra 2E is still being moved and the spot beam adjusted despite the doom mongerers.
Sky news and BBC world news are strong with no signal breakup here in deepest PO. If no luck start looking at your equipment first especially the LNB and external cables and connections.

Using 60cm Smart sat dish (German) and Manhatten Scala receiver.

Currently listening to LBC radio with 100% signal.

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Post by montgolfiere » Sat 15 Feb 2014 13:51

The only Data we have to go on is how 2f behaved since Dec 2012 and how 2e relates to the present signal from 2f.

During the last 14 months the signal has varied from 100% to 0%.
The signal was very low from April to September and higher from September to December and now again 2 f is low.

When suggesting dish sizes for this area we have always taken this low 5 month period into account.

You therefore have 3 Choices.

a. get a dish fitted that is working now with no regard to 2f's 14 month Data.

b. Get a Dish Fitted that will hopefully allow for such 'Lows'

c. Wait 12 months to see how 2e actually performs and then get the exact size of Dish Fitted.
(You could of course fit a FTA IPTV System whilst waiting ...assuming you have a suitable Broadband/adsl connection)

BTW: Sky News and some of the more obscure Tv channels are still being broadcast on a PE Widebeam, as are most commercial radio Stations.
Last edited by montgolfiere on Sat 15 Feb 2014 16:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by montgolfiere » Sat 15 Feb 2014 16:35

Please be aware that in line amplifiers are only suitable for very long Cable Runs (40 metres +); they do not increase the ability to receive weak signals and can in many circumstances make reception worse and even damage either your LNB or receiver.
I there urge you NOT to USE these Devices and if you have them in your system ( unless used for the above long cable run) remove them asap.
The reception at the Palma level and south of Barcelona but north of the Costa del sol has been noted to be better than here between Narbonne and Barcelona. It has been suggested that there is a 'Side Lobe' at this level giving the better reception.

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Post by russell » Sat 15 Feb 2014 17:39

montgolfiere wrote:Please be aware that in line amplifiers are only suitable for very long Cable Runs (40 metres +); they do not increase the ability to receive weak signals and can in many circumstances make reception worse and even damage either your LNB or receiver.
That is absolutely right. The quality of the reception is a function of the received signal strength and the system noise figure. The noise figure is largely dependent on the noise figure of the LNB and can only be made worse by the addition of an amplifier. (Google Friis formula). An amplifier is only of use to compensate for a very long cable run and even then the noise figure will be worse than using a short cable with no amplifier.

The only practical way to improve reception is to use a bigger dish. Other solutions exist such as using a liquid helium cooled LNB!

Russell.

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Post by Owens88 » Sat 15 Feb 2014 19:14

If you have a VERY long cable and attach it to a balloon say 2 or 3 km above would it help?

:wink:
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Post by russell » Sun 16 Feb 2014 10:37

Owens88 wrote:If you have a VERY long cable and attach it to a balloon say 2 or 3 km above would it help?

:wink:
No, it needs to be about 36,000 km :lol:

Russell.

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Post by Smiley G » Sun 16 Feb 2014 13:21

When does Astra 1N disappear?
There are still some channels on it that are worth watching when it's cold and wet (like today)
Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy.

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Post by montgolfiere » Sun 16 Feb 2014 15:27

You will still be able to receive the FTA Channels and Radio that are not on the 2e 2f narrow beams. The Likes of Sky News etc will be receivable for the foreseeable.

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Post by Sue » Sun 16 Feb 2014 15:46

We have a 100cm dish which hubby has managed to tune in to Arab stations ie Kuwait, Bahrain etc a lot of which are in English, if you dont mind the arabic writing at the bottom. For women there are some excellent cookery programmes.
Dylan

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Post by russell » Sun 16 Feb 2014 16:27

montgolfiere wrote:You will still be able to receive the FTA Channels and Radio that are not on the 2e 2f narrow beams. The Likes of Sky News etc will be receivable for the foreseeable.
Hi Dave,
I'm a bit confused by this. I understood that the reason behind the moves were that 1N was at the end of it's design life and needed to be replaced. Was that misinformation?

Russell.

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Post by montgolfiere » Sun 16 Feb 2014 18:24

they will be on the same wide beam as the Sky Subscription Channels

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Post by montgolfiere » Sun 16 Feb 2014 18:43

Sue wrote:We have a 100cm dish which hubby has managed to tune in to Arab stations ie Kuwait, Bahrain etc a lot of which are in English.....For women there are some excellent cookery programmes.
That's a bit iffy...... I do the Cooking Chez Moi.

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Post by Sue » Sun 16 Feb 2014 18:45

Sorry Montgolfiere didnt mean to offend. :roll:
Dylan

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Post by blackduff » Sun 16 Feb 2014 20:42

When I had a moveable dish, I used to watch the food programs too. But, most of the recipes were deep fried and were kinda fattening. Then, for some reason the English programs were stopped and nothing more for years. It was something political I think.

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Post by Sue » Sun 16 Feb 2014 20:55

Ive been watching a chef called Jonathan Phang (who I have never seen on British tv) and he is currently cooking very healthy Carribean recipes.
Dylan

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Post by montgolfiere » Mon 17 Feb 2014 06:42

Sue wrote:Sorry Montgolfiere didnt mean to offend. :roll:
no probs, no offence taken!!!

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Dish size south of Perpignan

Post by Gruntled66 » Tue 18 Feb 2014 15:13

Can anyone positively confirm that a 1.5m dish will work, in most conditions, just South of Perpignan. If so, where are you and what is your set up?

The difference in cost between a 1.5 and 1.8m dish is enormous! Some actual experience is needed before going ahead.

Many thanks in anticipation of a response

Gruntled66

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Post by montgolfiere » Tue 18 Feb 2014 15:41

The very knowledgeable Allan, has a 150 Gilbertini around the Rivesaltes area and has had excellent results for around 6 months.. I would estimate that so long as you are not too far south maybe 10kms max a 150 Gilb should be OK.

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Dish size South of Perpignan

Post by Gruntled66 » Tue 18 Feb 2014 17:37

Montgolfier, many thanks for the prompt response. The problem is that Rivesates is north of Perpignan and, elsewhere, you have stated that the signal fall off is precipitous South of Përpignan.

There are four of us in the village, maybe five, and we need a little more reassurance that 1.5m will pull in a reasonable signal. I have a 90cm dish that didn't work in torrential rain. This was acceptable. However, the replacement 1.5m dish is also required to work in overcast or normal rain/ snow conditions.

Just as an aside, a professional satellite finder/reader will show an accurate signal strenth. From this can the dish size be calculated?

Again, thanks for your reply

Gruntled66

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Post by Sue » Tue 18 Feb 2014 18:31

We have a 100cm dish that doesnt work in the best of conditions.
Dylan

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Post by montgolfiere » Tue 18 Feb 2014 19:37

Yes i know where Rivesaltes is!!!! and the fall off starts a long way north of here. we can see this as we move South and can estimate the Dish Size from existing installations.

A Satellite Meter Measures the strength of Signal from the Dish.

I am afraid that the only way to be sure that any Dish will work in any given location is to put one up and monitor it for 12 months, thru any seasonal Variations.

Otherwise, my best advice is that a 150cm Gilbertini with Feedhorn would be the best size up to 10 kms. South of Perpignan.

(My own personal preference is actually delay installing any new Dish for 12 months and use a FTA IPTV System during this period whilst the Data is being collected.)

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Re: Dish size South of Perpignan

Post by interiors66 » Tue 18 Feb 2014 19:44

Gruntled66 wrote:Montgolfier, many thanks for the prompt response. The problem is that Rivesates is north of Perpignan and, elsewhere, you have stated that the signal fall off is precipitous South of Përpignan.

There are four of us in the village, maybe five, and we need a little more reassurance that 1.5m will pull in a reasonable signal. I have a 90cm dish that didn't work in torrential rain. This was acceptable. However, the replacement 1.5m dish is also required to work in overcast or normal rain/ snow conditions.

Just as an aside, a professional satellite finder/reader will show an accurate signal strenth. From this can the dish size be calculated?

Again, thanks for your reply

Gruntled66
It seems like no one wants to make a commitment as to what size dish is required so someone will have to be a Guinea pig
My suggestion is if there are 3/4 people on your village there must be the same in my area ( st genis) if we all chipped in and did a trial on a 1.5 m dish at someone's property then we would all know if it works , how best to install it or if a larger dish is required.
If some one already has a substantial concrete slab ,or is prepared to put one in (I certainly would) this would be a good place to start.
Another question is , is there a second hand market now for second hand dishes in Spain further south where they may need to increase dish sizes?

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Post by Sue » Tue 18 Feb 2014 19:47

I agree totally with you Montgolfiere about waiting before putting any size larger dish up. I am sure their are plenty of options available to watch it in some form or other. To be honest I havent missed it a bit.
Dylan

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Post by Allan » Tue 18 Feb 2014 20:23

The problem is that if everybody waits then there will never be any real basis for determining dish size.

It isn't necessary however to fully install a dish to see if it will work.

My first satellite dish was mounted on a tripod held down by sandbags, you wouldn't do that on a permanent basis but given the possibility of several customers in an area then I am surprised that an enterprising satellite engineer wouldn't be interested in a trial.

As for waiting, I now have a year's experience of watching channels on Astra 2F. I watch the HD channels so with the exception of BBC, most of my viewing has been on Astra 2F.

I can tell you that Astra 2e is so far behaving the same as 2F which is what you would expect as the satellites are practically identical.

Prior to getting a 1.5M dish, I tried a 1.2M which worked for most of the time. You don't need a year's viewing to determine if a dish will be satisfactory - just run a test and compare the results with a known good dish.

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Post by interiors66 » Wed 19 Feb 2014 07:58

I guess why no one has tried it yet is that it seems firstly quite costly ,
Secondly quite "area specific" so what may work in canet won't work in Argeles and thirdly having an 80 cm dish is fine for most but a 1.8m is not practical for most so I guess the installers do not know yet the demand and whether that would cover the costs of testing different sizes.

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Post by montgolfiere » Wed 19 Feb 2014 09:00

There are Differences in the Signal Levels between 2f and 2e.

We only have a couple of weeks Data to go on but thankfully the signal from 2e is (so far) better than 2f.

On average the signal Quality reading is 10% HIGHER on 2e
Also the H and V variations are REVERSED on 2e.

However as someone who monitored the 2f signal all last year i would like to point out the signal between Feb and May dropped significantly and a Dish size that worked in Feb 2013 did NOT work between April and September. It is for that reason i advocate caution before deciding to invest in any given Dish Size until we see if a similar 'Seasonal Variation' takes place with 2e or indeed if 2f will be affected again this year.

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Post by Allan » Wed 19 Feb 2014 23:44

montgolfiere wrote:There are Differences in the Signal Levels between 2f and 2e.

We only have a couple of weeks Data to go on but thankfully the signal from 2e is (so far) better than 2f.

On average the signal Quality reading is 10% HIGHER on 2e
Also the H and V variations are REVERSED on 2e.

However as someone who monitored the 2f signal all last year i would like to point out the signal between Feb and May dropped significantly and a Dish size that worked in Feb 2013 did NOT work between April and September. It is for that reason i advocate caution before deciding to invest in any given Dish Size until we see if a similar 'Seasonal Variation' takes place with 2e or indeed if 2f will be affected again this year.
That's in direct contravention of what I'm seeing.

On 4 separate receivers switching between channels on 2f and 2e, some are stronger, some are weaker but they are all within an acceptable range. As well as being consistent between receivers. Everyone knows that satellite signals vary, not just with seasonal variations but with climate, solar winds, positions of other celestial bodies. But a year.s viewing experience tells me that my current dish size is fine for my location and I know it isn't too big because I tried and failed with a smaller one.

I accept that my readings are taken on the fairly crude meters built into Sky and Freesat boxes but at the end of the day we install dishes to watch TV, so I feel that viewing experience is a lot more relevant than meter readings.

By your logic people should wait another year instead of getting on with things.

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