Very high 2F Signal today

[Allan]

Forgive my ignorance but why does knowing what time of day things are changing make any difference to what will happen in 2 months?
Surely in a couple of months we will have UK TV or not.
We may a bigger dish or not be able to receive at all.
We may get it online or in some areas due to speeds not.
So surely you just have to go with the flow and see what happens and if need be invest in a few DVD's or watch French TV? But I don't see what this signal watching is doing, other than getting people angsty.

I couldn't agree more, if you look back over the various threads you will see umpteen proclamations about this dish size, or that dish size.

Of course the signal is worse at night, the air is colder, moister and denser and at this time of year the signal has to pass through more of the atmosphere in the evenings.

[Satbloke66]

Forgive my ignorance but why does knowing what time of day things are changing make any difference to what will happen in 2 months?
Surely in a couple of months we will have UK TV or not.
We may a bigger dish or not be able to receive at all.
We may get it online or in some areas due to speeds not.
So surely you just have to go with the flow and see what happens and if need be invest in a few DVD's or watch French TV? But I don't see what this signal watching is doing, other than getting people angsty.

Wish there was a "Like" button

[Smiley G]

Forgive my ignorance but why does knowing what time of day things are changing make any difference to what will happen in 2 months?
Surely in a couple of months we will have UK TV or not.
We may a bigger dish or not be able to receive at all.
We may get it online or in some areas due to speeds not.
So surely you just have to go with the flow and see what happens and if need be invest in a few DVD's or watch French TV? But I don't see what this signal watching is doing, other than getting people angsty.

Wish there was a "Like" button

I agree. Somewhere, someone MUST know that at a certain distance from the centre of the beam, WHAT EXACTLY would they need to continue receiving FTA UKTV. By "what" I mean size of sat. dish and LNB specs.
Now Astra 2E is in orbit, perhaps SES can give an overview? Anyone with the relevant technical knowledge volunteer to contact them?

[Phipplebert]

I don't doubt that if it is your livelihood and business it is a trying time but I don't see that it is any more than a waiting game.
The TV will stop getting signal or it won't and when that happens (or doesn't) in a couple of months, one can then look at options; be it dish sizes or Internet TV etc.
I don't see that one can change what will happen or predict it, it's just a case of patience.

[montgolfiere]

I can give some simple figures based on the Lowest Signal that 2F produced over the last 10th. Months.

to give as near 24/7 Reception as possible.

Perpignan to the Border 180 /240cm.
Narbonne to Perpignan 125/180cm
Montpellier / Narbonne 90 / 125 cm.


However..... IF the lowest signals were caused by a TEMPORARY Shift in the Footprint then i feel it prudent to try and see if in fact we can use smaller (Cheaper and Easier to site Dishes.)
the signal HAS been a lot higher for nearly a month now and to me this COULD be significant.

The difference over the 24 hour period is important as if the signal, for example is pretty good 'til maybe 11pm and after 6 am we could then discount the Very Low Period when only an insomniac requires reception.

I personally am trying to work out the best and lowest cost range of solutions to suit everyones requirments.
Some people can have large Dishes, some can't. Some people can afford large Dishes some can't. some might want to take out an IPTV Subscription some might not. Some will be happy with FTA IPTV Some won't...some can set up their own Systems some not. some are here all year some are not. some have ADSL some not.... the permutaions are endless.

It is of course True that 2e may differ from 2f and my advice has been to wait and see. However some people do not want to be without their UK TV and i want to be able to offer at least a short term and lowest cost solution to offer anyone who wants one.

Anyone else is welcome to their own ideas but i personally would be pleased to know whether C5 and 4/7 are being received around the region , on what sized Dish, where and for what period of the day. (Maybe, as it seems to upset some people, you could PM them to me)

I am afraid there will be no info forthcoming from SES etc. as they have no interest in whether we can or cannot receive the Signal. (In fact perhaps it might be better if they DONT know we can or cant!!!!) as their stated aim is to reduce the 'overspill of the signal outside the UK.

[russell]

It's a shame that nobody here is able to measure the signal strength, EIRP, around the region.

Statements such as the quality was this or that are rather meaningless. If we knew the signal strength it would be very easy to calculate the dish size needed.

Russell.

[montgolfiere]

The problem for me has been (is) the variation in Signal 'Strength/Quality level' over the past 9/10 months and the variation from the N to the s of the Region.

[Sue]

7 45 am today Channel 5 on 100cm dish.

[lonesome paddy]

I dont know if this is of any significance but i have a Sky subscription basic package (no Sky sports or films). Yesterday evening and today a few channels are pixelated e:g one of them being the Welsh channel SC4, also some radio stations e:g Classic Gold keeps breaking up. Its not the weather as the other few hundred TV & radio channels are fine.

[monsans]

Unbelievable all channels received today including all 5's and ch. 4 HD at Argeles plage.

[montgolfiere]

Unbelievable all channels received today including all 5's and ch. 4 HD at Argeles plage.

i would be interested to know what size Dish this is on.....
......Yes the signal is up around 10% on a few days ago. I would be most interested at what time this evening you lose the Channels. Thanks.

we have now had over 4 weeks of a constantly better signal than earlier in the year with any variations of a max 15% up or down At any given time of the day.

There is however as usual a difference between daytime and night time reception. Any figure i ever give are based on a reading at a similar time of day.

All this does make a sensible solution for the future all the more difficult to divine!!! as said before all we can do is wait and observe as the figures from earlier in the year are to me looking more and more likely to have been down to 'unusual events' (see my earlier posts) that will not be repeated with 2e and 2f going forward.
It is however almost certain that larger Dishes will be required through at least the area south of Beziers but with any luck not the large sizes were were contemplating a couple of months ago.

[Allan]

I'm sorry but I just do not see the point of this. What we are seeing is not some miracle of satellite re-alignment but just the effect of regular and random satellite movements.

We live right on the edge of the satellite reception area so any one of a number of factors can affect reception.

The Astra satellites are not stationary in relation to the earth, they are pulled around by the gravitational effect of the sun and the moon and also by ionic activity in space. If the satellite gets too far off station it's thrusters are turned on to return it to the desired position.

This makes no difference to viewers in the centre of the beam but the edge of the beam can move up to 60km in any direction. So on a good day, a dish in Argeles could perform as if it were in Narbonne.

It is universally acknowledged that satellite signals are weaker at night when the air is colder, moister and denser.

Giving people false hope because of a few good weeks is just encouraging them to install dishes that may turn out to be inadequate.

What would be much more useful would be for users and installers of larger dishes to share information on how often they lose signal.

Knowing that you can get a signal at 10:00 in the morning is meaningless unless that is when you want to watch it. Most people watch TV in the evenings and that is when the signal is weakest.

I live 10km North of Perpignan and installed a 1.25m dish back in March, it proved inadequate so I replaced it with a 1.5m which works for most of the time. The evening levels however are sufficiently low that I believe I would lose signal on a smaller dish.

[montgolfiere]

I am not giving anyone false hope and if you read my post i suggest waiting so that people do not either install Dishes too Small or as important too Large.

I am interested in the signal from 0600 - Midnight. i try and take readings around 0600 1300 and 2200 to build up a picture on the time of day factor and then add in the weather effect.
A lot of people are unable to install Very Big Dishes, so a minimum size to give a certain level of reception is a very useful understanding. A smaller dish could also be used in conjunction with a IPTV System (FTA or Subscription) to actually guarantee 100% reception without the requirment for the likes of a 150cm. Dish....

I believe this improvment in signal is different to the variations in signal we had over period December - August.

But i respect your view and only time will tell what the future of 2f and 2e holds. You are actually at the same level as me albeit that i am a little to the west of you. so i beleive our rception is pretty similar.

I do however suspect that the Footprint has now been 'shifted' albeit by a small ammount but that has improved our situation quite nicely. see my previous posts regarding the 'Mali' Effect.

(My 'Cheapo' 120 has been giving 24/7 reception for the past month which has not happened since i installed it much earlier in the year. I too was thinking that a 150 Gilbertini Quality Dish would be needed 'chez Moi')

All i am interested in is installing a suitable Dish at the Best Price and i for one will not be rushing into doing any Dish installations until i am satisfied that they will do the Job.

[Allan]

I am not giving anyone false hope and if you read my post i suggest waiting so that people do not either install Dishes too Small or as important too Large.

I am interested in the signal from 0600 - Midnight. i try and take readings around 0600 1300 and 2200 to build up a picture on the time of day factor and then add in the weather effect.
A lot of people are unable to install Very Big Dishes, so a minimum size to give a certain level of reception is a very useful understanding. A smaller dish could also be used in conjunction with a IPTV System (FTA or Subscription) to actually guarantee 100% reception without the requirment for the likes of a 150cm. Dish....

I believe this improvment in signal is different to the variations in signal we had over period December - August.

But i respect your view and only time will tell what the future of 2f and 2e holds. You are actually at the same level as me albeit that i am a little to the west of you. so i beleive our rception is pretty similar.

I do however suspect that the Footprint has now been 'shifted' albeit by a small ammount but that has improved our situation quite nicely. see my previous posts regarding the 'Mali' Effect.

(My 'Cheapo' 120 has been giving 24/7 reception for the past month which has not happened since i installed it much earlier in the year. I too was thinking that a 150 Gilbertini Quality Dish would be needed 'chez Moi')

All i am interested in is installing a suitable Dish at the Best Price and i for one will not be rushing into doing any Dish installations until i am satisfied that they will do the Job.

Firstly I didn't suggest that you personally were intentionally giving people false hope but it is an inevitable consequence of a thread that proclaims higher signal levels.

You are actually a bit north of me and a fair bit west, since the signal comes from the south east then I would expect your signal to be stronger.

What scientific basis do you have for suggesting the footprint has changed? Do you believe that SES has re shaped the beam?

Do you see a drop in signal level during the eclipses?

When Astra 2f was launched they spent some months adjusting the footprint and signal strength before it settled down, I hope that when Astra 2E starts operation we don't get another rush of proclamations about dish size before things settle down.

I don't agree with you about many things but I do agree that if people are bothered about UK TV then they should consider a backup solution. I do however believe that since signals are generally worse during peak viewing times then installing a bigger but not big enough dish is probably of limited value.

[neil mitchell]

I bet what happens is that those who get a good IPTV solution as a back up and then see how much better it is will stay with it and not go back to a satellite solution.

[montgolfiere]

I am not giving anyone false hope and if you read my post i suggest waiting so that people do not either install Dishes too Small or as important too Large.

I am interested in the signal from 0600 - Midnight. i try and take readings around 0600 1300 and 2200 to build up a picture on the time of day factor and then add in the weather effect.
A lot of people are unable to install Very Big Dishes, so a minimum size to give a certain level of reception is a very useful understanding. A smaller dish could also be used in conjunction with a IPTV System (FTA or Subscription) to actually guarantee 100% reception without the requirment for the likes of a 150cm. Dish....

I believe this improvment in signal is different to the variations in signal we had over period December - August.

But i respect your view and only time will tell what the future of 2f and 2e holds. You are actually at the same level as me albeit that i am a little to the west of you. so i beleive our rception is pretty similar.

I do however suspect that the Footprint has now been 'shifted' albeit by a small ammount but that has improved our situation quite nicely. see my previous posts regarding the 'Mali' Effect.

(My 'Cheapo' 120 has been giving 24/7 reception for the past month which has not happened since i installed it much earlier in the year. I too was thinking that a 150 Gilbertini Quality Dish would be needed 'chez Moi')

All i am interested in is installing a suitable Dish at the Best Price and i for one will not be rushing into doing any Dish installations until i am satisfied that they will do the Job.

Firstly I didn't suggest that you personally were intentionally giving people false hope but it is an inevitable consequence of a thread that proclaims higher signal levels.

You are actually a bit north of me and a fair bit west, since the signal comes from the south east then I would expect your signal to be stronger.

What scientific basis do you have for suggesting the footprint has changed? Do you believe that SES has re shaped the beam?

Do you see a drop in signal level during the eclipses?

When Astra 2f was launched they spent some months adjusting the footprint and signal strength before it settled down, I hope that when Astra 2E starts operation we don't get another rush of proclamations about dish size before things settle down.

I don't agree with you about many things but I do agree that if people are bothered about UK TV then they should consider a backup solution. I do however believe that since signals are generally worse during peak viewing times then installing a bigger but not big enough dish is probably of limited value.

Point 1.
The Signal IS Higher and is Higher than it has been for approx 6months.

Point 2.
I am actually at the same level North South.and not that far west to make any Difference. ( I am in touch with a colleague to the West of me +/- 150 km.s and that aspect makes no difference.)

Point 3.
I was informed by (to me at least) a reliable source that the footprint was changed earlier in the year to allow the French Military to use some of the output ( TEMPORARlY) in Mali. I believe that usage has now finished.

Point 4.
No, never had any eclipse effect here in 10 years of 2d / 1n. Didn't see anything re 2f either. other than that my only knowlege is what i have read on the Internet.

Point 5.
The 2f Signal never settled down betweeen Dec 2012 and August 2013. HOWEVER it has been settled at a higher level for the past 5 weeks.

Point 6.
( large) Dish size is a problem around here ...... Cost, practicality and WIND. so a smaller dish + a FTA IPTV System may well be a better and cheaper and possible option.

[Smiley G]

With all the posts going on concerning dish sizes/location/loss of FTA UKTV etc., I wondered something and I apologise if I'm way off the mark but............
Will SES, as part of the ramp-up to Astra 2E going operational, be conducting transmission tests? If they do, perhaps for the benefit of their desire to be able to publish accurate footprint maps and for installation people, then someone should be able to get a pretty good idea what is 100% going to happen.
For example, if SES decided to beam a test BBC1 transmission on a certain date at a certain time, then reception reports, based on "this is how it's going to be" can finally give some clarity to us expats, the majority of whom get UKTV from a standard sized dish and a generic set-top box.
If it's 100% no in the PO for dish sizes under xxx cm, then alternatives can be sourced..........IPTV boxes/AppleTV boxes......in fact anything that will work with internet access.
Just an idea from an amateur who only gets "Up to 2Mbps" from France Telecom.

[montgolfiere]

Unfortunately in the 10 months since 2 F went into service the signal has varied so wildly that no accurate 'level' has been observed for more than a few weeks at a time. (it mainly decreased month by month until August this year). there were cerain 'Patterns and Theories' but nothing actually 'Tangible'. (The largest fall in March was explained by my (trusted) source to be due to use by the French Military in Mali and only temporary).

Yes, there will be Testing but no it will not definitely mean that as we are getting Level 'X', Dish size 'Y' will work in Location 'Z'.

SES Have no interest in anything other than the Signal in the UK/ Eire.

My point regarding what has happened in the last 5 weeks or so is that we have had a large (?unexpected?) increase in the Signal and it has stayed at a certain (Highish) level with only small variations. (before we were getting large variations from day to day or week to week). There has also been a 'coming together' of the V and H signals... some 5 / 7 % which is also very helpful.
The difference in H and V levels were very pronounceed during the 'Low Signal' months.

So......,Unfortunately, we are reliant on our own 'expertise' to understand the best way forward. I personally am in contact with 2 other installers in the Region and 'BrainStorming' with them is a very useful exercise.

[Allan]

I am not giving anyone false hope and if you read my post i suggest waiting so that people do not either install Dishes too Small or as important too Large.

I am interested in the signal from 0600 - Midnight. i try and take readings around 0600 1300 and 2200 to build up a picture on the time of day factor and then add in the weather effect.
A lot of people are unable to install Very Big Dishes, so a minimum size to give a certain level of reception is a very useful understanding. A smaller dish could also be used in conjunction with a IPTV System (FTA or Subscription) to actually guarantee 100% reception without the requirment for the likes of a 150cm. Dish....

I believe this improvment in signal is different to the variations in signal we had over period December - August.

But i respect your view and only time will tell what the future of 2f and 2e holds. You are actually at the same level as me albeit that i am a little to the west of you. so i beleive our rception is pretty similar.

I do however suspect that the Footprint has now been 'shifted' albeit by a small ammount but that has improved our situation quite nicely. see my previous posts regarding the 'Mali' Effect.

(My 'Cheapo' 120 has been giving 24/7 reception for the past month which has not happened since i installed it much earlier in the year. I too was thinking that a 150 Gilbertini Quality Dish would be needed 'chez Moi')

All i am interested in is installing a suitable Dish at the Best Price and i for one will not be rushing into doing any Dish installations until i am satisfied that they will do the Job.

Firstly I didn't suggest that you personally were intentionally giving people false hope but it is an inevitable consequence of a thread that proclaims higher signal levels.

You are actually a bit north of me and a fair bit west, since the signal comes from the south east then I would expect your signal to be stronger.

What scientific basis do you have for suggesting the footprint has changed? Do you believe that SES has re shaped the beam?

Do you see a drop in signal level during the eclipses?

When Astra 2f was launched they spent some months adjusting the footprint and signal strength before it settled down, I hope that when Astra 2E starts operation we don't get another rush of proclamations about dish size before things settle down.

I don't agree with you about many things but I do agree that if people are bothered about UK TV then they should consider a backup solution. I do however believe that since signals are generally worse during peak viewing times then installing a bigger but not big enough dish is probably of limited value.

Point 1.
The Signal IS Higher and is Higher than it has been for approx 6months.

Let's hope it stays that way but there is no evidence to suggest this is anything other than a normal fluctuation.

Point 2.
I am actually at the same level North South.and not that far west to make any Difference. ( I am in touch with a colleague to the West of me +/- 150 km.s and that aspect makes no difference.)

Well, I don't know where you live but on any map that I look at Rennes Les Bains is North of me. However, the 50 or so km to the west puts you much closer to the edge of the footprint. Look at SES,s map and you will see what I mean.

Point 3.
I was informed by (to me at least) a reliable source that the footprint was changed earlier in the year to allow the French Military to use some of the output ( TEMPORARlY) in Mali. I believe that usage has now finished.

Do you seriously believe this? The internet is awash with people that have heard equally ridiculous suggestions from supposedly reliable sources. Having successfully provided a footprint for most of this year that covers their intended reception area, why on earth would they now change it to include an area where they don't intend the signal to be received?

Point 4.
No, never had any eclipse effect here in 10 years of 2d / 1n. Didn't see anything re 2f either. other than that my only knowlege is what i have read on the Internet.

Further indication that you have a stronger signal, last spring the night-time outages exactly coincided with the published eclipse timetable.

Point 5.
The 2f Signal never settled down betweeen Dec 2012 and August 2013. HOWEVER it has been settled at a higher level for the past 5 weeks.

A few weeks is hardly a defining period

Point 6.
( large) Dish size is a problem around here ...... Cost, practicality and WIND. so a smaller dish + a FTA IPTV System may well be a better and cheaper and possible option.

I think you attach too much importance to some of these factors. Cost is of course of importance to a lot of people but the prevailing winds here are from the North West so a wall mounted dish pointing SSE will inevitably be sheltered. I live in a very exposed position and have no problems with my dish. There are plenty of parts of the world where larger dishes are the norm.

[Allan]

With all the posts going on concerning dish sizes/location/loss of FTA UKTV etc., I wondered something and I apologise if I'm way off the mark but............
Will SES, as part of the ramp-up to Astra 2E going operational, be conducting transmission tests? If they do, perhaps for the benefit of their desire to be able to publish accurate footprint maps and for installation people, then someone should be able to get a pretty good idea what is 100% going to happen.
For example, if SES decided to beam a test BBC1 transmission on a certain date at a certain time, then reception reports, based on "this is how it's going to be" can finally give some clarity to us expats, the majority of whom get UKTV from a standard sized dish and a generic set-top box.
If it's 100% no in the PO for dish sizes under xxx cm, then alternatives can be sourced..........IPTV boxes/AppleTV boxes......in fact anything that will work with internet access.
Just an idea from an amateur who only gets "Up to 2Mbps" from France Telecom.

It would be nice if they did but SES conducts tests for its own purposes, not for customers outside their target reception area. When Astra 2f was launched they started with a stronger signal and larger footprint and progressively reduced both. This resulted in Satellite installers declaring first of all that we needed a 90cm dish and then later on a 1m dish was the solution.

There is very little alternative but to suck it and see, it's not the installers fault, they have no more control over what is happening than we do.

[montgolfiere]

Dont Forget Le Marin......recorded at 146Km/hr. in March 2013 on the PO Coast. (i would estimate that i have installed 40% of the Dishes over the years on Chimneys and 90cm. would be the biggest size on a Chimney.)

This area is one of the windiest in Europe and the windiest regions of France.
see map:
http://robssatellitetv.webs.com/apps/ph ... =180432694


I am afraid as an Installer i do have to take this into account. Sure in a few cases where there is a nice sheltered spot a wall mount may be possible, but i will be advising for Ground Mounts on any Dish over 110cm. unless there are specific conditions eg a SOLID wall in a corner with protection on a couple of sides.
I would not like to be responsible for 150 CM. Dishes flying through the air in the middle of the likes of the Hurricane force winds that can hit the region. I was out and about on the day that 196km./hr. winds tore through the region in January some 4 years ago.

Regarding the 'Mali' Information. This did NOT come from the Internet. (in fact i have never seen reference to it on the web.)
It came from my Satellite Mentor who i trust 100%, and yes i do beleive it.
I am not trying to score points, my only interest is to try and show what is happeneing and explain why; but only time will tell what will happen and i am quite prepared to accept that i may be wrong.

For anyone who is still interested....
The Signal is exceptionally High this morning. with C5 even watcheable on the 85cm. at 0745. ( however 140 breaking up)

at 12.45 C 5 the highest in this 5 week period at 55% as measured on my Horizon USB Digital Meter.

All Channels working on the 120.
I have even seen a report that this morning 2F is receivable in Roses on a 100cm.!!!

[Sue]

In Argeles we have channel 5 on our 100cm wall mounted dish and 80cm chimney mounted this morning.

[Smiley G]

In Argeles we have channel 5 on our 100cm wall mounted dish and 80cm chimney mounted this morning.

Sue, what satellite are you receiving from? The reason I ask is that we live not far from you (as the crow flies) and we have no C5. We are using, as far as the screen installation manager is concerned, "Astra/Euro1"
Should I be attempting to locate another satellite? When I go into Installation Manager the list of sats is quite extensive.
I've just done a re-install and when I select C5, I get BBC Sport "The Football League Show" on goodness knows what channel, it's not in the Radio Times!

[Sue]

Hubby thinks we are on Astra 2F

[montgolfiere]

The UK Channels FTA and FTV as well as Sky Subscription Channels are from a mixture of Satellites at 28.2 east of South. Nominally the 'Astra 2 Cluster'. These include Astra 2A, Astra 2F and Astra 1N. ( However the channels still on the Astra 1N Satellite (which was a 'Temporary Fix' to replace Astra 2D ) will all move to 2F , 2E or 2G and then 1N will be moved to its original position 'The Astra 1 Cluster' at 19 east of South.

All the C5 Channels + the Channel 5 siblings (apart from C5HD)are on the Astra 2F Satellite.

[montgolfiere]

Registered my first lower signal readings today after 5 weeks of higher readings. will be interested to see what happens tomorrow...

[montgolfiere]

Back up to previous levels today., So far any 'drops' are not too much and not long lasted. yesterdays was less than 10% and today it has recovered 7%.

[russell]

Hi,

That's 7 to 10% drop of what? dBuV, Signal Voltage, Signal Power, Quality? It's important to know that to be able to decide how much bigger the dish should be to allow for the drops.

Russell.

[montgolfiere]

My readings are all from my Horizon Digital USB Meter and are Quality levels on Channel 5.
I am using a 120 Metronic Dish at the moment.

[russell]

My readings are all from my Horizon Digital USB Meter and are Quality levels on Channel 5.
I am using a 120 Metronic Dish at the moment.

Can you monitor the signal voltage, preferably in uV or dBuV, as well? The quality reading gives an idea of the reception quality but drops off like a cliff below a certain signal level. It is not directly related to the size of dish. The received signal voltage is directly proportional to the dish diameter so should tell us how much bigger the dish would need to be when the quality has dropped very low (or to zero)

Russell.