2 F new low level average signal.

montgolfiere · Post by **montgolfiere** » Fri 05 Apr 2013 10:02

The 2F signal seems to have (unfortunately) settled down to a new 'low average'.
This is 33% of the level it was during February.
If 2E is similar, i am afraid we are looking at 1,80 Dishes for the area to the South of Perpignan. This will become apparent in September when it comes into service.
It is likely that 1,25 Dishes will only be just sufficient for the area between Perpignan and Narbonne!!

Smiley G · Post by **Smiley G** » Fri 05 Apr 2013 11:17

Can you honestly expect the various Mairies, covering the area to the south of Perpignan, to approve satellite dishes of 180cm in diameter?
If, as I suspect, there are numerous applications in late summer for planning permission for dishes of this size, they're going to be turned down en masse.
In addition, it will be "Spot the English" time, any house with a Joddrell Bank sized dish will be checked out to see if a Permis de Construire was obtained.
The answer surely must be an optimum combination of;
Dish diameter
LNB specification
Set-Top Box

russell · Post by **russell** » Fri 05 Apr 2013 11:58

According to a French government web site you don't need planning permission for a dish unless you are in a "secteur sauvegardé ou en site classé". However you do need the space for it!

There is no "magic solution". The best LNB cannot compensate for a dish that is too small to receive a strong enough signal. If the dish is only just big enough to get a picture in good conditions you will loose it when it rains - which is possibly when you want to watch television! The set top box performance has no noticeable effect on the received signal quality.

Unfortunately we have to wait and see how the next satellite performs.

Russell.

montgolfiere · Post by **montgolfiere** » Fri 05 Apr 2013 16:13

Smiley G wrote:Can you honestly expect the various Mairies, covering the area to the south of Perpignan, to approve satellite dishes of 180cm in diameter?
If, as I suspect, there are numerous applications in late summer for planning permission for dishes of this size, they're going to be turned down en masse.
In addition, it will be "Spot the English" time, any house with a Joddrell Bank sized dish will be checked out to see if a Permis de Construire was obtained.
The answer surely must be an optimum combination of;
Dish diameter
LNB specification
Set-Top Box
I know someone in Collioure with a 100cm dish who has had a new LNB fitted together with a new box and his Channel 5, 5* & 5 USA have been restored and his signal strength for BBC & ITV has improved dramatically. All with the satellite dish he had fitted 7 years ago.

i would be very interested in seeing this. maybe your 'Mate' could PM me so i can arrange a visit.....

neil mitchell · Post by **neil mitchell** » Sat 06 Apr 2013 14:07

I was just talking to my friend who lives in Rivesaltes and he says that, on a good day with a little fine alignment, he can get the channels 5 on his 80 cm dish, don't know what LNB he has.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Sat 06 Apr 2013 15:06

neil mitchell wrote:I was just talking to my friend who lives in Rivesaltes and he says that, on a good day with a little fine alignment, he can get the channels 5 on his 80 cm dish, don't know what LNB he has.

So can most people.

The problem is that it's not reliable, a small deteriotion in weather or moisture content in the air can result in a loss of signal.

I'm not sure where Montgolfiere has got his figure of 1.8m south of Perpignan from but I live not far from Rivesaltes and have a 1.25m dish which still loses signal in heavy rain.

Not a lot of people want to climb on the roof and realign their dish, even if they did, the satellite moves during the day so they might have to keep repeating the exercise.

There are only 2 times each day when the satellite is at the optimum position for alignment, 'tweaking' it at any other time just means worse reception later in the day.

montgolfiere · Post by **montgolfiere** » Sat 06 Apr 2013 15:57

The 1,80m size is after discussion with the Spanish Installers who have a similar problem between the Costa Blanca and the Costa del Sol... (and have had this problem for may years). This is also using a Prime Focus Dish.

Of course the actual size can only be proved when a Dish is installed and the Signal actuially remains the same.

The 125 Dish (that Alan has) would have been 'overkill' 2 months ago when the signal was twice as strong.
i had a 90cm. Dish that was performing quite well at the start 'chez moi' now it looks like a 125 will be the minimum size for me!!! the 110 is just not big enough.

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Sat 06 Apr 2013 21:17

I suppose that this is off-topic. But has UK TV improved so much since I last watched it (last autumn) that it could conceivably be worth so much effort, and expense, and ugly stuff around your house? French TV is equally dire, but it at least it gives your French some exercise.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Sun 07 Apr 2013 00:24

montgolfiere wrote:The 1,80m size is after discussion with the Spanish Installers who have a similar problem between the Costa Blanca and the Costa del Sol... (and have had this problem for may years). This is also using a Prime Focus Dish.

Of course the actual size can only be proved when a Dish is installed and the Signal actuially remains the same.

The 125 Dish (that Alan has) would have been 'overkill' 2 months ago when the signal was twice as strong.
i had a 90cm. Dish that was performing quite well at the start 'chez moi' now it looks like a 125 will be the minimum size for me!!! the 110 is just not big enough.

You may be right but I cannot follow your logic, what has the experience of satellite installers 600km away got to do with this region. Our problem is with Astra 2F and that hasn't been around for years.

What is the meaning of your reference to a prime focus dish, I've seen lots of offset dishes in Spain. Surely, prime focus and offset dishes are just 2 ways of achieving the same thing.

montgolfiere · Post by **montgolfiere** » Sun 07 Apr 2013 07:50

they are working with the same New Satellite Astra 2F, the same signal, on the edge of the same footprint, with similar large drops of signal at the edge of the signal and have had experience from similar problems on previous Satellites.
I thought it prudent to take advice from someone who has actually had experience in these types of problems as 'we' (the installers who have worked with 2D and 1N in the past) have never encountered these problems before!!! whereas 'they' have had to resolve these similar problems before as they were/are on the edges of the footprints of 2D and 1N.

They suggested that, once moving to a size 150cm(+) a Prime Focus Dish, once set up, is more Stable; and more importantly for this region, more stable in wind!!

montgolfiere · Post by **montgolfiere** » Sun 07 Apr 2013 08:16

Martyn wrote:I suppose that this is off-topic. But has UK TV improved so much since I last watched it (last autumn) that it could conceivably be worth so much effort, and expense, and ugly stuff around your house? French TV is equally dire, but it at least it gives your French some exercise.

probably not!!!
but i am afraid many of us are prepared to spend effort and hard earned cash, on getting UK TV Reception...
I fully admit to being one of these 'types' myself as well as it being my Business !!!

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Sun 07 Apr 2013 15:18

I have in the past spent a lot of effort (the house in question gives no easy place to fit a satellite mount firmly) and modest amounts of money. But that was, from memory, a 40cm dish, and I quite enjoy playing with such things. I must say I felt a bit guilty, and still do when I watch: why live in France when your interests are still in the UK? That is a very far cry from a 1.8m prime focus rig (even if I had room for one which I don't). Of course if it's your living that is a whole other thing.

Sue · Post by **Sue** » Sun 07 Apr 2013 15:29

Martyn do you live here full time or are you here just for a few weeks/months a year?

mrob343 · Post by **mrob343** » Sun 07 Apr 2013 20:37

Martyn wrote:I suppose that this is off-topic. But has UK TV improved so much since I last watched it (last autumn) that it could conceivably be worth so much effort, and expense, and ugly stuff around your house? French TV is equally dire, but it at least it gives your French some exercise.

Personally i detest soaps and some of the rubbish output on UK based television.
But for some of the members on this forum its a regular part of life to get their UK TV fix.
They should not be ridiculed or mocked for wishing to do so..

PD · Post by PD » Sun 07 Apr 2013 23:18

mrob343 wrote: Personally i detest soaps and some of the rubbish output on UK based television.
But for some of the members on this forum its a regular part of life to get their UK TV fix.
They should not be ridiculed or mocked for wishing to do so..

Coronation Street and Eastenders are the only reality in my mundane life, since I have lost the 5's I do not know what is going on in H&A, is Romeo taking good enough care of himsel ??

opas · Post by **opas** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 08:28

There is as much crap on French TV as UK ........if you know where to find it, some of the stuff my girls watch is cringe worthy, especially the so called reality stuff.

Pearsonb · Post by **Pearsonb** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 09:43

Martyn wrote:why live in France when your interests are still in the UK?

And why post on an English speaking forum?

Because we are lucky enough to have two cultures. We can get the best bits of both of them.

Pearson

montgolfiere · Post by **montgolfiere** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 11:36

Pearsonb wrote:
Martyn wrote:why live in France when your interests are still in the UK?
And why post on an English speaking forum?

Because we are lucky enough to have two cultures. We can get the best bits of both of them.

Pearson

that is a good point!!!
(i tried to write this in French but Google Translate only had a 'literal' translation!!!)

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 12:20

I quite agree. My point, which I obviously expressed ineptly, is that there remains a tension between participating fully in our new culture and remaining much immersed in our old one. Or at least I have experienced things that way. UK TV is not, on the whole, the high-point of British culture, though I find it quite diverting enough that I am glad to have access to it when I can do so (as I could in my old house in the Seine-Maritime) at a level of cost and aesthetic damage to the appearance of the house that I find acceptable.

Different people will draw that line in different places. Purely personally, I remain surprised that so many people are prepared to go so far as they are apparently prepared to: cost entirely apart, big dishes really are very ugly, and the constraints on maximum cable runs make it hard to hide them away. Not mockery, just an observation.

montgolfiere · Post by **montgolfiere** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 12:25

I think that in this area the above points re Larger Dishes + the wind Factor + the cost factor + planning Issues etc etc. will lead most people down the UK TV via the Internet Route come September or indeed to abandon it altogether.

opas · Post by **opas** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 14:01

Martyn wrote:I quite agree. My point, which I obviously expressed ineptly, is that there remains a tension between participating fully in our new culture and remaining much immersed in our old one. Or at least I have experienced things that way. UK TV is not, on the whole, the high-point of British culture, though I find it quite diverting enough that I am glad to have access to it when I can do so (as I could in my old house in the Seine-Maritime) at a level of cost and aesthetic damage to the appearance of the house that I find acceptable.

Different people will draw that line in different places. Purely personally, I remain surprised that so many people are prepared to go so far as they are apparently prepared to: cost entirely apart, big dishes really are very ugly, and the constraints on maximum cable runs make it hard to hide them away. Not mockery, just an observation.

Do you really think that you are alone in your comments in your first paragraph? We do not get up in the morning and I mediatly turn the tv on to get our fix of Lorraine Kelly and Jeremy Kyle, we too like the choice, if I spoke Danish like my neighbour I would ensure I could watch that too!
I have not counted the contributors to this thread but I do not see `so many` , If internet happens to be the way to view what we want ,when we want ,then so be it!

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 15:16

opas wrote:
Do you really think that you are alone in your comments in your first paragraph? We do not get up in the morning and I mediatly turn the tv on to get our fix of Lorraine Kelly and Jeremy Kyle, we too like the choice, if I spoke Danish like my neighbour I would ensure I could watch that too!
I have not counted the contributors to this thread but I do not see `so many` , If internet happens to be the way to view what we want ,when we want ,then so be it!

At the risk of making a meal of this, I wasn't thinking just of the forum. montgolfiere seems to make a living largely out of the demand for UK TV, and he has recently reminded us that some Spanish installers have long made a living out of doing so under much more adverse, and costly, circumstances than we have had until recently. I cannot imagine wanting to "ensure" that I have UK tv, though I will get it if the cost and effort seem proportionate to the (for me, pretty limited) benefits.

In my case, the benefits fall well short of the fees needed to get full-on Internet TV, though the free version of Filmon seems to be worth occasionally jumping through the unavoidable hoops. But that is largely because I already have, by coincidence, the equipment (ipad plus a Freebox that understands Airplay) needed to get it onto my tv.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 15:42

Martyn wrote:
At the risk of making a meal of this, I wasn't thinking just of the forum. montgolfiere seems to make a living largely out of the demand for UK TV, and he has recently reminded us that some Spanish installers have long made a living out of doing so under much more adverse, and costly, circumstances than we have had until recently. I cannot imagine wanting to "ensure" that I have UK tv, though I will get it if the cost and effort seem proportionate to the (for me, pretty limited) benefits.

In my case, the benefits fall well short of the fees needed to get full-on Internet TV, though the free version of Filmon seems to be worth occasionally jumping through the unavoidable hoops. But that is largely because I already have, by coincidence, the equipment (ipad plus a Freebox that understands Airplay) needed to get it onto my tv.

You are clearly in the minority, 97% of British households admit to having televisions so why should people's desires change when they move to another country.

There is now a sizeable industry in the UK providing ex-pat television for Polish and other European immigrants much like there is here for providing UK TV.

Television provides a gateway to sport, news, current affairs and films, not just soap operas and less intellectually stimulating programs.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by full-on internet TV - in general IPTV services are just packaged versions of free-to air programs. You already have the equipment to watch pretty well the same programs.

montgolfiere · Post by **montgolfiere** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 15:54

I imagine a (subscription) stand alone set top Box style service eg. www.ukexpattv.com is what was being referred to.

There are already all sorts of ways of watching or streaming to (or from) Laptops, computers Ipads, Tablets etc.' FTA' or using a VPN like iportal and i am sure that in the next 6 months lots of new ideas and or devices will be developed as the hundreds of thousands of expats around the nether reaches of Europe's access to UKFTA TV is cut off in September.

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 20:12

Allan wrote:
Martyn wrote:

You are clearly in the minority, 97% of British households admit to having televisions so why should people's desires change when they move to another country.

There is now a sizeable industry in the UK providing ex-pat television for Polish and other European immigrants much like there is here for providing UK TV.

Television provides a gateway to sport, news, current affairs and films, not just soap operas and less intellectually stimulating programs.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by full-on internet TV - in general IPTV services are just packaged versions of free-to air programs. You already have the equipment to watch pretty well the same programs.
Of course I have a TV: the question is how much effort to put into getting programmes other than those that "come naturally". I can get news and current affairs in French, and news of M Cahuzac is now much more relevant to me than news of Mr Cameron, as well as much more entertaining. Similarly for sport (if I cared), films etc. arte carries far better "cultural" programming than you can easily find on UK TV.

By "full-on" Internet TV, I meant the various (paid-for) arrangements to get access to the full range of UK free-to-air programming by way of VPN, DNS, or re-transmission (if I have understood what is available - as montgolfiere says, the scene seems likely to develop rapidly, but you can be sure that they will cost money).

By way of afterthought, I have a friend now in her late eighties who has lived in France for 50 years, and has not returned to her native UK more than half a dozen times in that time. But she does have UK tv. The result is that she is wholly misinformed about the UK, because she knows nothing of the context, and almost wholly uninformed about France. But it suits her well enough.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 21:02

Martyn wrote: Of course I have a TV: the question is how much effort to put into getting programmes other than those that "come naturally". I can get news and current affairs in French, and news of M Cahuzac is now much more relevant to me than news of Mr Cameron, as well as much more entertaining. Similarly for sport (if I cared), films etc. arte carries far better "cultural" programming than you can easily find on UK TV.

I guess a lot depends on your fluency in French, I work hard at improving my French but still find it hard work to watch a program in French. I enjoy my life in France but that doesn't mean that I want to be French or think everything French is better.

I'm surprised you think it's such a big deal to go to a little bit of effort, with the equipment you already have, the cost involved is about the same as a couple of cups of coffee every month.

In the UK plenty of people subscribe to paid TV channels so it doesn't seem unreasonable that some expats would be happy to do the same.

Martyn wrote: By "full-on" Internet TV, I meant the various (paid-for) arrangements to get access to the full range of UK free-to-air programming by way of VPN, DNS, or re-transmission (if I have understood what is available - as montgolfiere says, the scene seems likely to develop rapidly, but you can be sure that they will cost money).

I doubt that a few expats in France and Spain will have much effect. IPTV is already a huge industry. Pretty well every UK retailer offers set-top boxes, as does every major British and French Internet Service Provider, if you browse Amazon you can find at least a dozen different boxes.

Other than issues with Internet speed and quality, the major obstacle is fooling the equipment into thinking you are in the UK or other country of origin of the broadcast and there are many simple ways of achieving this.

Debbie and Noel · Post by **Debbie and Noel** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 21:34

I have been following this thread with interest. As happens quite often it has descended into bickering which leads nowhere and only deters participation.

We had lunch recently with a very interesting guy. He seemed very well informed and had an interesting perspective. Some years back the BBC realised it would have to generate new income streams as governments resisted requests to increase the licence fee for UK citizens.One of the targets is UK ex-pats living in Europe. Like the BBC, ITV and Channel 4 are suffering from revenue loss and are looking for supplementary income streams. Sky have privately estimated that they have at least 250,000 subscribers living outside the UK.

UK broadcasters co-operate when it is their interest. Freesat is an example. Interestingly the project was shelved then revived and eventually launched in a hurry.

Our host is convinced that the UK broadcasters have done their sums and calculated that they can offer UK TV as a paying service to the ex-pat community in Europe and any others that want it. There are large numbers of non-British English speakers living in Europe so the potential market may approach 1 million. The tight beam offers the opportunity to launch a subscription service separate from Freesat. If, like the original Freesat launch, there has been stop-start development they have a problem with the lead time to develop, test and market a suitable set-top box. Assuming that the delivery channel has been agreed. This could explain why Astra are being coy about the actual transfer date.

Delivery could be either by satellite or internet. In the former case it might be possible to reformat Humax receivers with a plug-in card reader. If they go the internet route something like Boxee might be the answer.

An annual fee of £200 and 500,000 subscribers would produce £100M in revenue. Not to be sniffed at.

Noel

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Mon 08 Apr 2013 21:46

I wouldn't hold my breath, if I were you.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Tue 09 Apr 2013 00:35

I'm not sure that having differing points of views constitutes bickering.

I would be delighted if your friend is right but I can't see it somehow. The BBC, ITV etc license programs to be shown in a certain geographic area In the past they struggled to enforce this but changes in satellite technology have made it easier for them.

Having a narrow spot beam is also much more efficient for satellite operators as they need less power and can reuse frequencies.

montgolfiere · Post by **montgolfiere** » Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:27

I too support 'Healthy' Debate.

The provision of a subscription type service is well in hand.
I think that the main 'Development' will be in easy ways to access the FREE Streaming Services without going through the hoops of VPN and computer access etc...
Hopefully Competion will lead to a lower Subscriptions as time goes by.

Connect with your social network account

2 F new low level average signal.

2 F new low level average signal.