Save the vines

Recommendations, comments or questions about wine matters

Moderator: Moderators

Jungle Jim

Post by Jungle Jim » Wed 27 Aug 2008 11:23

I'm no expert but the conventional wisdom among the vignerons that I meet is that you either replant or quit.

As a contribuable I have no view either way other than to state my opposition to any further subventions, direct or indirect, to les vignerons.

If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen!

Jungle Jim

User avatar
Santiago
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 1288
Joined: Tue 27 Dec 2005 12:19
Contact:

Post by Santiago » Thu 28 Aug 2008 02:34

Good point Carol - sustainability is what this is all about.

I'm not against a scheme to reduce the amount of bulk wine. I'm worried about the effect on the landscape and longterm rural economy from a knee-jerk reaction. Some things are worth saving because they are special.

I'm not sure if I understand John's comment
Roussillon does not produce any wines made from vines of any age ,from whatever "TERROIR" that are discussed in the "hushed tones" that Roger so splendidly refers to.
I take it to mean that he doesn't believe that wine connoisseurs value any wine from the Roussillon. That view is years out of date.

Wannabe wine critics ought to have a look at what the wine cognoscenti say about Calvet-Thunevin, Gauby, Clos de Fees, Matassa, La Casenove, Ferrer-Ribiere and Gardies - to name but a handful.

User avatar
john
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 1075
Joined: Tue 20 Dec 2005 20:14
Contact:

Post by john » Thu 28 Aug 2008 10:29

Santiago wrote: Good point Carol - sustainability is what this is all about.

I'm not against a scheme to reduce the amount of bulk wine. I'm worried about the effect on the landscape and longterm rural economy from a knee-jerk reaction. Some things are worth saving because they are special.

I'm not sure if I understand John's comment
Roussillon does not produce any wines made from vines of any age ,from whatever "TERROIR" that are discussed in the "hushed tones" that Roger so splendidly refers to.
I take it to mean that he doesn't believe that wine connoisseurs value any wine from the Roussillon. That view is years out of date.

Wannabe wine critics ought to have a look at what the wine cognoscenti say about Calvet-Thunevin, Gauby, Clos de Fees, Matassa, La Casenove, Ferrer-Ribiere and Gardies - to name but a handful.
You have completely misunderstood the point I was making . You have quoted all sorts of fancy Burgundies/Champagnes etc.,and NO Roussillon wines (even the ones to which you refer) are as sought after as them. so you are NOT comparing like with like. I am NOT saying that there are not some very high quality wines from this area.

User avatar
Santiago
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 1288
Joined: Tue 27 Dec 2005 12:19
Contact:

Post by Santiago » Thu 28 Aug 2008 23:20

Champagnes and Burgundies are held in high esteem because their best vineyards have been preserved over the years and their growers have not been encouraged to favour high-yielding sites and dig up the higher quality ones.

The purpose of the arrochage program is, as Paddyfrog pointed out, to reduce the surplus of low-quality wine. Who thinks that igging up the better quality vines and keeping the higher yielding ones is likely to correct that problem?

It was assumed earlier that I, as a wine producer, should be pleased that the wine supply is being reduced. I don't see my cooperateur neighbours as competitors. I see my fellow vignerons as allies to fight any outdated stigmas that are attached to the Roussillon. I aim to take advantage of the situation by buying a few old vineyards and hope that others will be able to do the same before they are lost for a handout.

I may be passionate about the quality of wine of this region but I hope I have a reasonable understanding of the economics. Otherwise I am doomed along with all the other domaines who believe the Roussillon is more than a bulk wine farm.

User avatar
PaddyFrog
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat 21 Jan 2006 18:03
Contact:

Post by PaddyFrog » Fri 29 Aug 2008 00:29

The average person here buys and enjoys normal local wines for everyday drinking and for an occasion may extend to a expensive quality one.

But so-called " boutique" wine is beyond the pocket of most French residents, it can only be aimed at Brits or others who do not have the quality and variety that we have living in a Wine Producing country.

We enjoy drinking and experimenting within and outside the region, but "boutique" wine is quite frankly a gimmick to confuse wine lovers, on the lines of Terence Conran's Habitat and Biba's.

I have yet to read a comment in French on "boutique" wine,
you remind me of the hype of " Blue Nun" and "Chianti" in the 70's and 80's.

With the recession not only touching France as well as the UK, profit margins are being cut and all products Wine included, has to be sold at a price the Punters can afford, ALD, Lidle and Leader Price have outstripped the Auchan's and Carrefour in sales.

Vines are being pulled up wholesale because the Market is not there.
Michael

User avatar
john
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 1075
Joined: Tue 20 Dec 2005 20:14
Contact:

Post by john » Fri 29 Aug 2008 09:20

PaddyFrog wrote:[
Vines are being pulled up wholesale because the Market is not there.
Got it in a nutshell PF.

This plan seems to be a fair compromise between 70's style interventionism and rampant free market thinking.

User avatar
rbg
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon 11 Feb 2008 15:11

Post by rbg » Fri 29 Aug 2008 09:48

Guys guys guys,
I really don't understand what your problem is with what Santiago is saying.
He is concerned about the landscape of the countryside and the future plans for the land where the vines are being ripped up willy nilly for short term gain by the land owners.

This is one of the most beautiful parts of the world - what is going to happen to the landscape and the land ?? Don't you care?

What is the future for the area - do you agree we should just concrete the lot? Lotissements , while making the landowner a wealthy dude, are just plain ugly. I nearly cried the day they ripped up the vines and constructed the mega castillet on the route d'Argeles.

Yes, it's the most lucrative short term proposition for the land owners/farmers but don't you , ultimately , think that it is a sad day for the PO , to see all that history wiped out in an instant for the sake of a quick buck?
There is always a market for fine wines, in France and abroad.

It seems to me that Santiago is a puritan when it comes to wine. He is in the business so he has to be a realist as well.

User avatar
vieux hibou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue 17 Jan 2006 08:32

Post by vieux hibou » Fri 29 Aug 2008 17:54

I have temporarily taken out postings made subsequent to my closing this thread in order to sort out what has been going on while I have been out and about today and to consider if any other action needs to be taken to sort out what needs to be done regarding what has become a rather distasteful thread. I have kept copies of the postings which may be put back up. i might on the other hand just take out the whole thread on the basis that it does the forum no service whatsoever.

But please, folks, leave it be and give me time to look at it closely and decide
Forum Moderator

User avatar
vieux hibou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue 17 Jan 2006 08:32

Post by vieux hibou » Sat 30 Aug 2008 05:06

To my surprise it was quite easy to go through thread and prune it of all the sniping remarks that were around, leaving I hope a coherent discussion of the original point.

I don 't have time to explain each bit of pruning to individuals but in general may I ask for debate to be robust without any personalised niggling.

I suspect the topic has been well enough discussed, but there is no reason now to have it locked.
Forum Moderator

Post Reply