Co-operatives

Recommendations, comments or questions about wine matters

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Outie

Post by Outie » Wed 26 Mar 2008 21:10

The term "trade"is not right,santiago is an artisan,and like all artisans as something to sell, his wine.That term "wine trade" would have to be stretched thin to include artisans.

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john
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Post by john » Thu 27 Mar 2008 08:46

I stand corrrected by your superior knowledge,gents.
I personally can't see the difference,but there we go.

"artisans" are what would be known in Britain as "tradesmen".

Outie

Post by Outie » Thu 27 Mar 2008 09:05

john wrote:I stand corrrected by your superior knowledge,gents.
I personally can't see the difference,but there we go.

"artisans" are what would be known in Britain as "tradesmen".
John,my french to english dictionary states that artisans are craftsmen,is santiago a craftsman? :lol: :lol:

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Colin L
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Post by Colin L » Thu 27 Mar 2008 09:22

Outie wrote:is santiago a craftsman? :lol: :lol:
Nothing as ordinary as that, but an artist creating wines that will eventually be on Martin Wishart's wine list at £710 a bottle. :lol:

Outie

Post by Outie » Thu 27 Mar 2008 11:51

You will have to tell me what £710 wine tastes like Colin,pop down to your celler and make a few tasting notes..................... :wink:

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john
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Post by john » Thu 27 Mar 2008 15:55

Outie wrote:
John,my french to english dictionary states that artisans are craftsmen,is santiago a craftsman? :lol: :lol:
Interestingly,mine describes artisan as BOTH craftsman or tradesman.

Like I say,I don't really know what the difference is. A decorator here describes himself as an artisan ,but in Britain you'd not refer to him as a craftsman....certainly a tradesman.

To me a craftsman is someone like an artist,weaver,carpenter,or sculptor. Someone who produces and sells wine is equally a tradesman,and is therefore in the wine trade, in my book.

There's no right or wrong about it ;just how you view things on a personal level.

Still,more importantly,when you get a glass or two of Colin's 750 quid wine,can you see your way clear to dropping one off round here??

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sue and paul
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Post by sue and paul » Thu 27 Mar 2008 17:25

It's gone up a bit in price. Is that the 'craftsman' in you John? :lol:

"Colin's 750 quid wine"

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john
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Post by john » Thu 27 Mar 2008 17:29

Sorry,slip of the keyboard.

Still,what's 40 quid between friends. At that rate,we're talking less than a thimbleful.

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sue and paul
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Post by sue and paul » Thu 27 Mar 2008 17:31

Can I be your friend for 40 quid? :lol: :lol:

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Post by john » Thu 27 Mar 2008 17:35

If you bring along a bottle of Mr Wishart's costly wine,then certainly.

carol sheridan
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Post by carol sheridan » Thu 27 Mar 2008 18:25

I am such a philistine - that is a confession, not a boast.
I lived with a millionaire in Monaco for six years, and one of my duties was to go to dinner with him every night. He would order the most expensive wine on the wine list, and I would be thinking 'I wish you would order the 100 franc bottle and give me the difference!'.
I can just about tell the difference between a really cheap wine and a good wine, but not in between one good wine and another. I have noticed that in blind tastings with so-called experts Tesco champagne was rated higher than most of the expensive brands. Is a lot of it just hype and snobbery?

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Santiago
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Post by Santiago » Thu 27 Mar 2008 20:33

The hype there is almost certainly Tesco's.

For those who don't appreciate the difference between tradesmen and craftsmen, the Cooperative is the place to go for wine.

May I recommend my local Cellier de Trouillas

http://www.cellier-trouillas.com/uk/index.php

Which brings this nicely back to where the thread started.

Outie

Post by Outie » Thu 27 Mar 2008 21:06

No you may not,I used to buy 100`s of lts of wine from that co-op years ago,at fist the wine was ok but it started to go down hill and we stopped buying wine from there and in fact took some wine we bought there back as it was of such poor quality.
There is no denying that in blind tastings "own brand" wines come out on top most of the time,maybe it is due to the buyers knowing what their customers what.

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Santiago
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Post by Santiago » Thu 27 Mar 2008 23:08

What do you expect if you go in via the Tradesman's Entrance :?:

Perhaps the reason "Own Brands" win is down to retail chains running lots of "blind" tastings until they get the results they need.

If you grab punters in Croydon high street and offer them "blind" Tesco's finest champers and Dom Perignon 1972, eventually you will find enough numpties to make your stats work.

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Post by carol sheridan » Thu 27 Mar 2008 23:15

These tasters were not numpties, they were recognised wine experts.

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Santiago
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Post by Santiago » Thu 27 Mar 2008 23:22

Only a few hours ago they were so-called experts now they're recognised.

Can you point me to the article/publicity so I can see what they are up to?

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Post by groslard » Thu 27 Mar 2008 23:28

There are no experts: it is a profitable industry which creates loads of myths just to sell its products.
I have just enjoyed a bottle of local wine (unknown, but very nice) at 2.99

I also have had excellent wines at 12 euros..but the difference has nothing to do with the coefficient
The second certainly didn't give me 4x the pleasure..

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Post by carol sheridan » Thu 27 Mar 2008 23:40

Santiago, if you knew what I had been through in the last few days you would realise that the last thing I want is to get into an argument on a forum! I apologise if I said anything that offended you - I just saw the item on a TV programme some time ago - perhaps it was all made up.

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Post by Santiago » Fri 28 Mar 2008 00:17

Carol, no offense at all. I'm just intrigued. Let's not get all personal. It's just a discussion.

Outie

Post by Outie » Fri 28 Mar 2008 08:11

Santiago wrote:What do you expect if you go in via the Tradesman's Entrance :?:
:lol: :lol:

Jungle Jim

Post by Jungle Jim » Fri 28 Mar 2008 12:08

As far as I’m concerned the price/quality relationship with wine is very iffy. Doesn’t matter where it comes from you can always get a bad bottle even in a good batch. Talking of co-ops, where all this blather started, seems to me that they are like a chain - only as good as the weakest link. Co-ops can make good/bad/indifferent wine just like anybody else.

Jungle Jim

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Post by john » Fri 28 Mar 2008 12:20

The point you quite rightly make is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle and that co-ops ,as with branded wines,and the independents ,are capable of producing good,mediocre or poor wines.

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Marguerite & Steve
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Post by Marguerite & Steve » Fri 28 Mar 2008 12:30

I don't care where my wine comes from as long as I enjoy it, I do support our local vigneron in Lesquerde, and an added bonus is that they do produce superb wine, from cheap plonk to a more mature wine.

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Post by john » Fri 28 Mar 2008 15:49

A very reasonabe point.Certainly the Lesquerde wines we've had at yours have been excellent,Marguerite.

Outie

Post by Outie » Fri 28 Mar 2008 19:13

What wine was that then?From the local co-op I hope.

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Marguerite & Steve
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Post by Marguerite & Steve » Fri 28 Mar 2008 19:16

....of course :roll:

Outie

Post by Outie » Fri 28 Mar 2008 21:04

Good on you. :wink:

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