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bad builder advice needed

Posted: Sun 15 Jan 2017 16:41
by jasmine2
just used i thought a friend and his workers as a builder plummer and electrician come painter to do work on our new home .English with siret number
yes stupidly didn't do a devis as agreeded the work to be done and a price per day ,
to do the heating system ,fit the kitchen ,bath,shower and 2 sinks and plaster 3 rooms fit 3 windows
had problems from the start but as nearly christmas thought wouldnt get anyone else and needed to move in as our house we was living in was sold.
now the house is a mess they have done plastering i said to do later because they all had 15 days to do the job
the electrics don't work properly the kitchen is badly fitted ,the plumbing leaks in a couple of places, their is more paint on every surface but the walls ,they fitted a the fire but not the boiler for the heating system and they have drained all the system and cut some of the pipes but not repaired them and the windows are not sealed properly you could see through the gaps.
when he came back to finish his jobs my father asked him why did he do jobs we asked to do later and not do the agreeded work words were exchanged and they left.
we agreed on a price per hour etc and since they did work not agreed the have knocked off 5 days each but still insist we owe them 2000 euros for materials but they have put their price per day up to make up this short fall and keep demanding payment
and its going tocost us alot to put the work done right
any helpful advice welcome
:( :(

Posted: Sun 15 Jan 2017 19:30
by tia
If you didn't get an official quote in writing ,which you then pay a deposit and sign to say you agree to it ,how can they force you to pay? From what you have said everything has been verbal agreement so no actual proof they actually did any work for you. I would recommend taking photos of everything they have done so you have some sort of proof if they decide to take it further.

Posted: Sun 15 Jan 2017 21:09
by Kate
Might be worth checking that they have the correct accreditation to do all the jobs. Having a SIRET doesn't necessarily mean everything they're doing is legal. Download their Kbis (www.infogreffe)
For example, they might be able to build walls, but not do electrical work or fit boilers (different accreditation needed) without the right training and experience, these things can be dangerous and even fatal. Bonne chance.

Posted: Mon 16 Jan 2017 14:09
by martyn94
Kate wrote:Might be worth checking that they have the correct accreditation to do all the jobs. Having a SIRET doesn't necessarily mean everything they're doing is legal. Download their Kbis (www.infogreffe)
For example, they might be able to build walls, but not do electrical work or fit boilers (different accreditation needed) without the right training and experience, these things can be dangerous and even fatal. Bonne chance.
I think the best advice is the old Irish gag: "don't start from here". Beyond that, I guess you need to take a hard-faced look at your least-worse outcome: do you want them to fix it (which doesn't seem encouraging given your experience so far), or just pay them as little as possible for the banjax they've already made and get someone else to sort it out?

Either way, I would try to avoid getting lawyers involved, either in France or anywhere else. But it might be worth getting a "huissier" ( and soon) to make an official record of how bad it is (if it's as bad as you say): their services are not cheap but cheaper than lawyers, and could prove valuable if they try to use lawyers against you. The problem remains that you don't have any good record of how much they were meant to do, for how much money. I have often felt guilty that I have rarely got more than one devis, but I have always got one, except for the most self-contained jobs.

For myself, I've never been tempted (or usually had the chance in any event) to use English contractors. Unless they are very capable, it has always seemed to me that French-trained artisans are likely to do it better, and not charge me a premium for avoiding trying to speak French.

In any event, as Kate has implied, it seems unlikely that any small firm could do all of these different jobs according to their respective "normes", and with the relevant qualifications. Though I'm not clear exactly where that gets you, unless you are ending up in court.

Posted: Mon 16 Jan 2017 14:38
by opas
From correspondence with op, I have their siren details.

Reparation d`autres biens personnels et domestiques


:oops: I read that as a washing machine/fridge repairer!

Posted: Tue 17 Jan 2017 09:10
by tia
So they have set up in a way that they do not need to pay to do the course to become AE or give any form of qualifications . I wouldn't pay them anything. Let them take you to court and explain why they were doing work they were not qualified to do.

Posted: Tue 17 Jan 2017 09:29
by jasmine2
thanks I am not paying them any more money

Posted: Tue 17 Jan 2017 20:18
by GrahamC
Yes, let them take you to court - if they dare. Document everything now, before you forget. Photograph all the leaks and the poor workmanship with the camera's date display function switched on. Draw up a list of dates covering all the correspondence between you. Print out all the documentary evidence and file it in a ring binder. If you copy correspondence to, say a USB drive, then make sure you copy in a way that preserves all the original file dates.

Then get in someone like Rob Morley to put it right; send them the bill for his rectification work and demand payment in full within 28 days.

Posted: Wed 18 Jan 2017 07:34
by interiors66
GrahamC wrote:Yes, let them take you to court - if they dare. Document everything now, before you forget. Photograph all the leaks and the poor workmanship with the camera's date display function switched on. Draw up a list of dates covering all the correspondence between you. Print out all the documentary evidence and file it in a ring binder. If you copy correspondence to, say a USB drive, then make sure you copy in a way that preserves all the original file dates.

Then get in someone like Rob Morley to put it right; send them the bill for his rectification work and demand payment in full within 28 days.[/quote)




Yes ,agreed document everything, but if it was to go to court an expert would be appointed to make a formal report . If another artisan has since been involved before then you will not have a leg to stand on.
Just be aware court cases will take years .

Posted: Wed 18 Jan 2017 10:36
by Kate
I would always avoid court wherever possible. If you havent paid them, and they're not demanding money with menaces, I would drop it and find somebody else with a good reputation, and recommendation. Honestly, for the stress and paperwork involved, and the fact that you could still end up out of pocket, sometimes it's better just to put it behind you and move on.

Posted: Wed 18 Jan 2017 21:05
by tia
Agree no point you going to court. If they start threatening to take you to court just ignore them . A cpurt will ask them for proof of qualifications for the work they have done and will also ask why they have not set up as AE properly if they are qualified. The description they have give is for doing minor handy man jobs , they should not be touching electricity or plumbing at all.

Posted: Thu 19 Jan 2017 19:39
by mrob343
It's really not nice reading stories like this...But you pay your money,make your choice and take your chance..
My advice is you do not pay one more centime to these cowboys !!
Hope you get it sorted.

Posted: Tue 24 Jan 2017 19:44
by GrahamC
tia wrote:Agree no point you going to court. If they start threatening to take you to court just ignore them . A cpurt will ask them for proof of qualifications for the work they have done and will also ask why they have not set up as AE properly if they are qualified. The description they have give is for doing minor handy man jobs , they should not be touching electricity or plumbing at all.
Yes, that's what I meant. Prepare yourself but let them take the first step if they dare. 99.9% of the time they won't.

For anyone who does like the idea of legals, I can give you the full monty on what it feels like to be subjected to (so far) 7 years of legal aggression, with the family home gone and no end in sight.

Bad builders

Posted: Wed 31 May 2017 14:23
by ShazzaandPete
I've just read the unfortunate story of the building nightmare and can relate to the stress and heartache. We have been through similar over a period of 9 months now, although the 'builder' has gone quiet re what we owe at present. My husband told him that he would charge for all the hours he's put in to rectify poor workmanship. It's prompted me to write a book which is well under way. I'd be happy to include other people's experiences if you'd like to contact me on 0641274946..... Sharon

Posted: Wed 31 May 2017 17:32
by Florence
For French language you could try Promo Langue in Céret, or the U3A PO, There's also Maureillas sans Frontières. The latter also have other activities like walking, excursions etc.

Re: Bad builders

Posted: Wed 31 May 2017 19:40
by martyn94
ShazzaandPete wrote:I've just read the unfortunate story of the building nightmare and can relate to the stress and heartache. We have been through similar over a period of 9 months now, although the 'builder' has gone quiet re what we owe at present. My husband told him that he would charge for all the hours he's put in to rectify poor workmanship. It's prompted me to write a book which is well under way. I'd be happy to include other people's experiences if you'd like to contact me on 0641274946..... Sharon
A hundred people have written that book. They might have found it therapeutic, and I hope that it is for you. But don't think that it will sell.