Page 1 of 1

Par Baked bread in French Bakers ?

Posted: Mon 12 Dec 2016 16:34
by kenny
Is there any way to determine from the signage outside a baker

if they prepare bread from scratch on the premises

or use Par Baked bread

Posted: Mon 12 Dec 2016 17:45
by martyn94
Yes. If it's called a boulangerie it has to make at least the main bread products from scratch. Otherwise it's a "point chaud" or something to that effect. I'm sure that google would give you the fine details. That said, the par-baked bread at my local supermarket is no worse than the bread at three of my four local boulangeries.

Bakery Dodges

Posted: Fri 16 Dec 2016 14:53
by Phip2
I think that it may be a bit more complicated . I watch a lot of French consumer programmes. One followed an inspector : In one bakery he questioned a very young assistant about cake marked 'maison' . She confirmed that it was made on the premises and she knew this because she saw the cake being made. She showed him where it was made but was unclear about the ingredients used . He asked her show him where the ingredients were stored and which ones were used . She pointed to a large sack . The inspector explained that this was a Ready Mix and to describe the cake as 'maison' the cake must be made on the premises AND from raw ingredients; flour, sugar etc . The poor young girl couldn't grasp the distinction and keep arguing with the inspector that 'maison' was OK because the cake made on the premises . I suspect that most of us, French or British, thought that 'home made/maison' just means made on the premises .

What's this got to do with bread? Well apparently many bakers are buying in Ready Mix Bread . The programme didn't actually say that there was anything illegal about this. The number of bakers making bread from scratch was declining rapidly and some did a bit of both: making a one or two types from scratch and the rest using a mix . The same story goes for pastries , pies and God knows what else . And those unmarked, white, refridgerated, vans are unmarked and deliver very early so that customers don't know that their favourite boulangeries, pâtisseries or boucheries are selling them par cooked, or defrosted or ready mix products . This might explain why bread from many boulangeries and super markets tastes the same.

Re: Bakery Dodges

Posted: Fri 16 Dec 2016 16:06
by Sus
Phip2 wrote:I think that it may be a bit more complicated . I watch a lot of French consumer programmes. One followed an inspector : In one bakery he questioned a very young assistant about cake marked 'maison' . She confirmed that it was made on the premises and she knew this because she saw the cake being made. She showed him where it was made but was unclear about the ingredients used . He asked her show him where the ingredients were stored and which ones were used . She pointed to a large sack . The inspector explained that this was a Ready Mix and to describe the cake as 'maison' the cake must be made on the premises AND from raw ingredients; flour, sugar etc . The poor young girl couldn't grasp the distinction and keep arguing with the inspector that 'maison' was OK because the cake made on the premises . I suspect that most of us, French or British, thought that 'home made/maison' just means made on the premises .

What's this got to do with bread? Well apparently many bakers are buying in Ready Mix Bread . The programme didn't actually say that there was anything illegal about this. The number of bakers making bread from scratch was declining rapidly and some did a bit of both: making a one or two types from scratch and the rest using a mix . The same story goes for pastries , pies and God knows what else . And those unmarked, white, refridgerated, vans are unmarked and deliver very early so that customers don't know that their favourite boulangeries, pâtisseries or boucheries are selling them par cooked, or defrosted or ready mix products . This might explain why bread from many boulangeries and super markets tastes the same.
I had looked at this before and here is a good summary of the difference. Whether this is what happens in reality is of course another question!

{Boulangerie vs Terminal de cuisson : la réglementation}

Boulanger est un métier de l’artisanat; un boulanger est donc diplômé d’un CAP ou d’un brevet professionnel, il peut sinon avoir effectué trois années au sein de l’Union Européenne à un poste de boulanger (décret du 2 avril 1998). Il transforme lui-même des matières premières choisies, assure la fermentation de la pâte, son pétrissage, sa mise en forme et la cuisson du pain sur le lieu de vente.â€￾Les produits ne peuvent à aucun stade de la production ou de la vente être surgelés ou congelésâ€￾ (loi du 25 mai 1998). Ce sont également les conditions auxquelles il doit répondre pour écrire “boulangerâ€￾ ou “boulangerieâ€￾ sur son enseigne.

Un terminal de cuisson (ou point-chaud) est un point de vente de pain qui n’est fermenté ni pétri sur place. Les pâtons arrivent crus et surgelés, ils sont cuits par des vendeurs qui n’ont pas de diplôme de boulanger. Bien souvent, le levain naturel est remplacé par de la levure chimique. Par définition, un terminal de cuisson a pour interdiction légale de mentionner les termes “boulangerieâ€￾ et “boulangerâ€￾ (loi du 25 mai 1998) sur leur enseigne et jouent souvent sur les termes de “Fournilâ€￾, “pétrinâ€￾ et “painâ€￾ pour se créer un nom.

Re: Bakery Dodges

Posted: Sat 17 Dec 2016 00:30
by martyn94
[quote="Phip2"]I think that it may be a bit more complicated . I watch a lot of French consumer programmes. One followed an inspector : In one bakery he questioned a very young assistant about cake marked 'maison' . She confirmed that it was made on the premises and she knew this because she saw the cake being made. She showed him where it was made but was unclear about the ingredients used . He asked her show him where the ingredients were stored and which ones were used . She pointed to a large sack . The inspector explained that this was a Ready Mix and to describe the cake as 'maison' the cake must be made on the premises AND from raw ingredients; flour, sugar etc . The poor young girl couldn't grasp the distinction and keep arguing with the inspector that 'maison' was OK because the cake made on the premises . I suspect that most of us, French or British, thought that 'home made/maison' just means made on the premises .

What's this got to do with bread? Well apparently many bakers are buying in Ready Mix Bread . The programme didn't actually say that there was anything illegal about this. The number of bakers making bread from scratch was declining rapidly and some did a bit of both: making a one or two types from scratch and the rest using a mix . The same story goes for pastries , pies and God knows what else . And those unmarked, white, refridgerated, vans are unmarked and deliver very early so that customers don't know that their favourite boulangeries, pâtisseries or boucheries are selling them par cooked, or defrosted or ready mix products . This might explain why bread from many boulangeries and super markets tastes the same.[/quote]

I would have thought that it's entirely obvious that many loaves are made from prepared mixes: I quite often buy a quite decent pain aux céréales from my local boulanger, of which he must shift maybe ten a day: I don't seriously imagine that he stays up all night mixing in the crunchy bits.

It's basically down to us. Within living memory, boulangers could make a decent living selling maybe 8 bog-standard baguettes a day to a family of five. Nowadays it's quite often a half-baguette for a family of one. In those circs, they need to offer more sorts of stuff, with higher margins (while still churning out the bog-standard baguettes), and there's still only 24 hours in the day.

Posted: Sun 18 Dec 2016 18:25
by kenny
Thanks Folks, for all the replies

The reason I asked the question

In one baker in Barcares , I noticed trays of pale looking bread being loaded into ovens , this I assume was par baked , and the bread was being "tanned" onsite

and in another 200metre away , in the background I could see dough being prepared / rolled . there seemed to bit and pieces of floor in the premises, on counters , till etc. I am assuming , this baker was more authentic, bread made on premises

Posted: Sun 18 Dec 2016 19:11
by martyn94
kenny wrote:Thanks Folks, for all the replies

The reason I asked the question

In one baker in Barcares , I noticed trays of pale looking bread being loaded into ovens , this I assume was par baked , and the bread was being "tanned" onsite

and in another 200metre away , in the background I could see dough being prepared / rolled . there seemed to bit and pieces of floor in the premises, on counters , till etc. I am assuming , this baker was more authentic, bread made on premises
I think this is all well covered above. But "authenticity" is one thing, and decent bread is another. The par-baked "point chaud" variety is never very good, but rarely very bad.