Inheritance tax
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Serge
With all due respect Ian that looks like a load of tosh to me!
Myth 1.
Are you saying that only 6% of people living in the UK have houses worth in excess of £325,000 (the current inheritance tax threshold) to leave to beneficiaries, let alone any savings they might have .......
Myth 2.
People do work hard (and pay taxes every time they turn around!) for a better standard of life both for themselves while they are living and to give their children a good start in life, have you not done that?
Then to have some bureaucrats (different people!) wanting a chunk of the estate for doing absolutely nothing .................
Myth 3.
If the house has been bought and maintained and all the taxes involved have been paid throughout the process and the life of the buyer, why should it attact more taxes when it is passed on to a relative? it hasn't been sold, it has in effect been given ..................
The only logic I can see is that if you have your own web site on which you express your own opinions - some people will read them and believe what they have read.
Myth 1.
Are you saying that only 6% of people living in the UK have houses worth in excess of £325,000 (the current inheritance tax threshold) to leave to beneficiaries, let alone any savings they might have .......
Myth 2.
People do work hard (and pay taxes every time they turn around!) for a better standard of life both for themselves while they are living and to give their children a good start in life, have you not done that?
Then to have some bureaucrats (different people!) wanting a chunk of the estate for doing absolutely nothing .................
Myth 3.
If the house has been bought and maintained and all the taxes involved have been paid throughout the process and the life of the buyer, why should it attact more taxes when it is passed on to a relative? it hasn't been sold, it has in effect been given ..................
The only logic I can see is that if you have your own web site on which you express your own opinions - some people will read them and believe what they have read.
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john
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Absolutely correct,Serge. It is tosh. Utter tosh.
Ian is taking some carefully selected figures/stats and manipulating them to suit his(or Santiago's) argument. The fall in value of house prices may just take a few people out of IHT,but it's still more than 6% who pay.Last time I asked my accountant he said it was over 15%.
Another myth,this time one of your own,Ian ....."it's easy to give away wealth when you are alive..etc"
It isn't. Unless you(or the recipient) are happy to pay tax on the gifts in most cases.
Ian is taking some carefully selected figures/stats and manipulating them to suit his(or Santiago's) argument. The fall in value of house prices may just take a few people out of IHT,but it's still more than 6% who pay.Last time I asked my accountant he said it was over 15%.
Another myth,this time one of your own,Ian ....."it's easy to give away wealth when you are alive..etc"
It isn't. Unless you(or the recipient) are happy to pay tax on the gifts in most cases.
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Santiago
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I'm glad someone else has looked at the issue with a fresh pair of eyes.
The world would be a better place if we could all do that from time to time, not just looking at things from how we benefit personally and assuming all our good fortune is solely down to our own efforts and intelligence.
I find it quite funny that people who denigrate those with more ability to spend money on luxuries - restaurants for example - are now complaining about the government taxing their wealth.
Inheritance tax is relatively easy to avoid, you just have to be clever about it. There are plenty of ways to reduce the value of your estate to provide benefit of those you love before you die.
The world would be a better place if we could all do that from time to time, not just looking at things from how we benefit personally and assuming all our good fortune is solely down to our own efforts and intelligence.
I find it quite funny that people who denigrate those with more ability to spend money on luxuries - restaurants for example - are now complaining about the government taxing their wealth.
Inheritance tax is relatively easy to avoid, you just have to be clever about it. There are plenty of ways to reduce the value of your estate to provide benefit of those you love before you die.
Last edited by Santiago on Fri 19 Mar 2010 09:23, edited 1 time in total.
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john
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I assume it's me you are having a pop at here,Santiago. First of all I do not denigrate others.Yet another of your myths. I don't know how many times I have to say it,but my firm belief is that people should be free to choose how they spend . They should also be free to NOT spend,accrue wealth,and bestow it in whatever way they think fit.Santiago wrote: I find it quite funny that people who denigrate those with more ability to spend money on luxuries - restaurants for example - are now complaining about the government taxing their wealth.
.
So my views on both sides of this subject are wholly consistent. So cannot see what you find "funny" about it?
You were impling in an earlier posting that you felt"insulted". Well,tbh,I feel mildly insulted that you firstly feel that my,and my forebears' hard work and skill over the years counted for nothing,and I've only got the government to thank for the little wealth I have,and secondly,therefore they should determine what I do with it when I shuffle off this mortal coil.
BTW, IHT is not "easy to avoid". As I say,it can be done up to a point,but do you really think people would employ accountants to achieve that end if it were as simple as you make out?.
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mpprh
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Serge
Shrewd move Peter, but she could probably do a lot of damage in 8 years ........... might be better giving her the cheque book in 2019
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8414341.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8414341.stm
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Ian
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Serge,
Well I suppose since there are question marks in your “tosh” post I should respond- I fear there is a divide here that will not be bridged. I too hate paying taxes but it is something that we do so as to share in the benefits that the society we live in offers us.
Myth 1.
No I am not saying that that only 6% of people living in the UK have houses worth in excess of £325,000. I am saying that in 2007 and in the UK (which is the latest statistic I can find) only 6% of estates, ie people dying, paid inheritance tax. And since we have been in a recession recently and house prices haven’t been soaring for the last year or two then I wouldn’t have thought the figure would have changed much. But even if it is 7% or 10% it doesn’t really change the point that the other 90% who didn’t pay inheritance tax probably think that the 10% or whatever have probably had rather fortunate lives rather than “ordinary” ones. My take on this is that if you are one of the 6% you should not feel hard done by, but reflect that you have probably been very fortunate.
Myth 2.
I don’t understand your point. I agree, we all work hard to earn money to do all the things you say for themselves and family– but the people who inherit haven’t worked at all for their inheritance. It is a statement of fact how can you deny it.
To the person who inherits it is unearned income - which gets taxed like any other. Governments, UK, French and many others I presume have for over 100 years felt it is a good and easy way of redistributing wealth from the richest and redistributing it by providing services especially to the less well off and to provide services that we all use. If it has been used successfully for a hundred years by all political parties then it is hardly a gimmick. It works. Will you be getting excited just as much when taxes go up in the next few budgets as they surely will? Or is it just this particular tax that gets you worked up?
Myth 3.
I’m no so good with law or accountancy. But my understanding is the “relative” in your paragraph is a separate legal entity, as is the “estate” in the probate process or a Ltd company. You just can’t shift assets from one to another. There are laws that govern this sort of thing – which sadly involve taxes and if you try and avoid them you will get done for theft, fraud or money laundering and the like.
However, no need to be miserable - coninuing with the point about giving money away to those you want to have it – what’s the problem. The following chunk has been pasted from hmrc.gov.uk website on the subject. Paragraph 3 (Potentially exempt transfers) looks a doddle – just don’t leave it too late! And I believe there are more sophisticated ways to divide your estate when you write a will that will help minimise taxes – but I am not familiar with them myself or the specifics that apply in France.
Inheritance Tax exemptions and reliefs
Sometimes, even if your estate is over the threshold, you can pass on assets without having to pay Inheritance Tax. Examples include:
• Spouse or civil partner exemption. Your estate usually doesn’t owe Inheritance Tax on anything you leave to a spouse or civil partner who has their permanent home in the UK - nor on gifts you make to them in your lifetime - even if the amount is over the threshold.
• UK charity exemption. Any gifts you make to a UK registered charity - during your lifetime or in your will - will be exempt from Inheritance Tax.
• Potentially exempt transfers. If you survive for seven years after making a gift to someone, the gift is generally exempt from Inheritance Tax, no matter what the value.
• Annual exemption. You can give up to £3,000 away each year, either as a single gift or as several gifts adding up to that amount - you can also use your unused allowance from the previous year but you use the current year’s allowance first.
• Small gift exemption. You can make small gifts of up to £250 to as many individuals as you like tax-free.
• Wedding and civil partnership gifts. Gifts to someone getting married or registering a civil partnership are exempt up to a certain amount.
• Business, Woodland, Heritage and Farm Relief. If the deceased owned a business, farm, woodland or National Heritage property, some relief from Inheritance Tax is available.
Well I suppose since there are question marks in your “tosh” post I should respond- I fear there is a divide here that will not be bridged. I too hate paying taxes but it is something that we do so as to share in the benefits that the society we live in offers us.
Myth 1.
No I am not saying that that only 6% of people living in the UK have houses worth in excess of £325,000. I am saying that in 2007 and in the UK (which is the latest statistic I can find) only 6% of estates, ie people dying, paid inheritance tax. And since we have been in a recession recently and house prices haven’t been soaring for the last year or two then I wouldn’t have thought the figure would have changed much. But even if it is 7% or 10% it doesn’t really change the point that the other 90% who didn’t pay inheritance tax probably think that the 10% or whatever have probably had rather fortunate lives rather than “ordinary” ones. My take on this is that if you are one of the 6% you should not feel hard done by, but reflect that you have probably been very fortunate.
Myth 2.
I don’t understand your point. I agree, we all work hard to earn money to do all the things you say for themselves and family– but the people who inherit haven’t worked at all for their inheritance. It is a statement of fact how can you deny it.
To the person who inherits it is unearned income - which gets taxed like any other. Governments, UK, French and many others I presume have for over 100 years felt it is a good and easy way of redistributing wealth from the richest and redistributing it by providing services especially to the less well off and to provide services that we all use. If it has been used successfully for a hundred years by all political parties then it is hardly a gimmick. It works. Will you be getting excited just as much when taxes go up in the next few budgets as they surely will? Or is it just this particular tax that gets you worked up?
Myth 3.
I’m no so good with law or accountancy. But my understanding is the “relative” in your paragraph is a separate legal entity, as is the “estate” in the probate process or a Ltd company. You just can’t shift assets from one to another. There are laws that govern this sort of thing – which sadly involve taxes and if you try and avoid them you will get done for theft, fraud or money laundering and the like.
However, no need to be miserable - coninuing with the point about giving money away to those you want to have it – what’s the problem. The following chunk has been pasted from hmrc.gov.uk website on the subject. Paragraph 3 (Potentially exempt transfers) looks a doddle – just don’t leave it too late! And I believe there are more sophisticated ways to divide your estate when you write a will that will help minimise taxes – but I am not familiar with them myself or the specifics that apply in France.
Inheritance Tax exemptions and reliefs
Sometimes, even if your estate is over the threshold, you can pass on assets without having to pay Inheritance Tax. Examples include:
• Spouse or civil partner exemption. Your estate usually doesn’t owe Inheritance Tax on anything you leave to a spouse or civil partner who has their permanent home in the UK - nor on gifts you make to them in your lifetime - even if the amount is over the threshold.
• UK charity exemption. Any gifts you make to a UK registered charity - during your lifetime or in your will - will be exempt from Inheritance Tax.
• Potentially exempt transfers. If you survive for seven years after making a gift to someone, the gift is generally exempt from Inheritance Tax, no matter what the value.
• Annual exemption. You can give up to £3,000 away each year, either as a single gift or as several gifts adding up to that amount - you can also use your unused allowance from the previous year but you use the current year’s allowance first.
• Small gift exemption. You can make small gifts of up to £250 to as many individuals as you like tax-free.
• Wedding and civil partnership gifts. Gifts to someone getting married or registering a civil partnership are exempt up to a certain amount.
• Business, Woodland, Heritage and Farm Relief. If the deceased owned a business, farm, woodland or National Heritage property, some relief from Inheritance Tax is available.
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john
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One of your more accurate statements in this whole subject is that this is indeed a matter of personal belief,Ian. I guess Serge,Thumbs and I,etc are never going to agree with you and Santiago on this one. It's not a case of misunderstanding what you say;just that we fundamentally disagree with your views.So to that degree Santiago is right that it's not one to get in an argument over,so after this,it will be my last posting on the question.Ian wrote: However, no need to be miserable - coninuing with the point about giving money away to those you want to have it – what’s the problem. The following chunk has been pasted from hmrc.gov.uk website on the subject. Paragraph 3 (Potentially exempt transfers) looks a doddle – just don’t leave it too late! And I believe there are more sophisticated ways to divide your estate when you write a will that will help minimise taxes – but I am not familiar with them myself or the specifics that apply in France.
Inheritance Tax exemptions and reliefs
Sometimes, even if your estate is over the threshold, you can pass on assets without having to pay Inheritance Tax. Examples include:
• Spouse or civil partner exemption. Your estate usually doesn’t owe Inheritance Tax on anything you leave to a spouse or civil partner who has their permanent home in the UK - nor on gifts you make to them in your lifetime - even if the amount is over the threshold.
• UK charity exemption. Any gifts you make to a UK registered charity - during your lifetime or in your will - will be exempt from Inheritance Tax.
• Potentially exempt transfers. If you survive for seven years after making a gift to someone, the gift is generally exempt from Inheritance Tax, no matter what the value.
• Annual exemption. You can give up to £3,000 away each year, either as a single gift or as several gifts adding up to that amount - you can also use your unused allowance from the previous year but you use the current year’s allowance first.
• Small gift exemption. You can make small gifts of up to £250 to as many individuals as you like tax-free.
• Wedding and civil partnership gifts. Gifts to someone getting married or registering a civil partnership are exempt up to a certain amount.
• Business, Woodland, Heritage and Farm Relief. If the deceased owned a business, farm, woodland or National Heritage property, some relief from Inheritance Tax is available.
When you say IHT avoidance is a "doddle",I'm afraid you are being a little less accurate! You quote HMRC's site,but the point you are missing here is that these reliefs are(by necessity from their point of view,one assumes) only enabling individuals to chip away at the edges of their liability,particularly when houses make up the vast majority of folk's assets. You cannot just give away all your assets or put them offshore....the Revenue guys tend,as a rule,to dislike that. If it was as easy as you say then everyone would do it,surely?
I'm afraid you still have not made a viable case as to why it's morally acceptable for,having paid taxes all your life,you are then stung again (on already taxed income/assets )when you die. The fact that governments all over have being doing it for years,is,with respect,completely irrelevant.
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Roger O
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Another "insult", at least in France, is that they tax you "stamp duty" at 5.9% on buying the house in the first place,
which, in the local manner, they label as "droit d'enregistrement" as if that "right" were a privilege accorded to the buyer!!!
which, in the local manner, they label as "droit d'enregistrement" as if that "right" were a privilege accorded to the buyer!!!
I deal in Logic!
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"Magic" is applied science far in advance of our current technology.
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thumbelina
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I don't have an issue with stamp duty. You buy a large house, it's right and proper you pay more stamp duty than someone buying a smaller house. The only arguments I may have against it are the economic ones, not an argument on taxation.
John is right, we will all have to agree to disagree. That is why I haven't bothered posting on this thread for a while. Ian and Santiago can never convince me of the justification for inheritance tax just as, clearly, we can not convince them of the justification for it's abolition.
I would just add that I find comments that I am "only looking at things from how we benefit personally and assuming all our good fortune is solely down to our own efforts and intelligence." rather insulting.
Through MY hard work and efforts and getting off of MY arse, I've probably paid more in taxation in the UK than a lot of people do in a lifetime. I do not need lectures about the common good and giving to society. I have more than amply fulfilled both my legal obligations and my moral obligations in that area. I CAN look myself in the eye and know that I have always done everything - and more - that I could in that area!
And to say that " the people who inherit haven’t worked at all for their inheritance" is ridiculous. µVery often, people like my brother and I will have a reasonable inheritance but we were involved in the creation of the family wealth and have paid taxes on that wealth throughout our business lives.
I don't dispute that I had a good lifestylewhen we lived in England. I had a good lifestyle because of the risks and hard work that my family and I took - ably assisted by our excellent staff (who were also very well rewarded - and well looked after - so no exploitation of staff, getting rich off of the back of others etc etc etc). I do not complain about the taxes that I have had to pay. Au contraire - I am happy to pay what I should but to suggest that my dislike of inheritance tax is down to pure greed is outrageous and very offensive.
Oh, and to suggest that inheritance tax is easily avoidable just shows, with respect, how little both of you know on the subject.
The only EASY way to avoid it is for my father to give us everything and live the last years of his life in relative poverty - oh, and to be kept going on a life support machine if we should have the misfortune that he should shuffle off this mortal coil within the seven year period!
And I truly hope that I don't hear, in many years time, that the highly successful multi million euro estate, Domaine Treloar, is being sold as the children - who inherited this marvellous business created by the brave investement, the hard work and the blood, sweat, and tears of their parents - can't raise the funds to pay the inheritance tax owed!!!!
John is right, we will all have to agree to disagree. That is why I haven't bothered posting on this thread for a while. Ian and Santiago can never convince me of the justification for inheritance tax just as, clearly, we can not convince them of the justification for it's abolition.
I would just add that I find comments that I am "only looking at things from how we benefit personally and assuming all our good fortune is solely down to our own efforts and intelligence." rather insulting.
Through MY hard work and efforts and getting off of MY arse, I've probably paid more in taxation in the UK than a lot of people do in a lifetime. I do not need lectures about the common good and giving to society. I have more than amply fulfilled both my legal obligations and my moral obligations in that area. I CAN look myself in the eye and know that I have always done everything - and more - that I could in that area!
And to say that " the people who inherit haven’t worked at all for their inheritance" is ridiculous. µVery often, people like my brother and I will have a reasonable inheritance but we were involved in the creation of the family wealth and have paid taxes on that wealth throughout our business lives.
I don't dispute that I had a good lifestylewhen we lived in England. I had a good lifestyle because of the risks and hard work that my family and I took - ably assisted by our excellent staff (who were also very well rewarded - and well looked after - so no exploitation of staff, getting rich off of the back of others etc etc etc). I do not complain about the taxes that I have had to pay. Au contraire - I am happy to pay what I should but to suggest that my dislike of inheritance tax is down to pure greed is outrageous and very offensive.
Oh, and to suggest that inheritance tax is easily avoidable just shows, with respect, how little both of you know on the subject.
The only EASY way to avoid it is for my father to give us everything and live the last years of his life in relative poverty - oh, and to be kept going on a life support machine if we should have the misfortune that he should shuffle off this mortal coil within the seven year period!
And I truly hope that I don't hear, in many years time, that the highly successful multi million euro estate, Domaine Treloar, is being sold as the children - who inherited this marvellous business created by the brave investement, the hard work and the blood, sweat, and tears of their parents - can't raise the funds to pay the inheritance tax owed!!!!
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mand
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thumbelina wrote:I don't have an issue with stamp duty. You buy a large house, it's right and proper you pay more stamp duty than someone buying a smaller house. The only arguments I may have against it are the economic ones, not an argument on taxation.
John is right, we will all have to agree to disagree. That is why I haven't bothered posting on this thread for a while. Ian and Santiago can never convince me of the justification for inheritance tax just as, clearly, we can not convince them of the justification for it's abolition.
I would just add that I find comments that I am "only looking at things from how we benefit personally and assuming all our good fortune is solely down to our own efforts and intelligence." rather insulting.
Through MY hard work and efforts and getting off of MY arse, I've probably paid more in taxation in the UK than a lot of people do in a lifetime. I do not need lectures about the common good and giving to society. I have more than amply fulfilled both my legal obligations and my moral obligations in that area. I CAN look myself in the eye and know that I have always done everything - and more - that I could in that area!
And to say that " the people who inherit haven’t worked at all for their inheritance" is ridiculous. µVery often, people like my brother and I will have a reasonable inheritance but we were involved in the creation of the family wealth and have paid taxes on that wealth throughout our business lives.
I don't dispute that I had a good lifestylewhen we lived in England. I had a good lifestyle because of the risks and hard work that my family and I took - ably assisted by our excellent staff (who were also very well rewarded - and well looked after - so no exploitation of staff, getting rich off of the back of others etc etc etc). I do not complain about the taxes that I have had to pay. Au contraire - I am happy to pay what I should but to suggest that my dislike of inheritance tax is down to pure greed is outrageous and very offensive.
Oh, and to suggest that inheritance tax is easily avoidable just shows, with respect, how little both of you know on the subject.
The only EASY way to avoid it is for my father to give us everything and live the last years of his life in relative poverty - oh, and to be kept going on a life support machine if we should have the misfortune that he should shuffle off this mortal coil within the seven year period!
And I truly hope that I don't hear, in many years time, that the highly successful multi million euro estate, Domaine Treloar, is being sold as the children - who inherited this marvellous business created by the brave investement, the hard work and the blood, sweat, and tears of their parents - can't raise the funds to pay the inheritance tax owed!!!!
well said thumelina i agree
but other factor i find quite insulting that Ian wrote quote to share in the benefits that the society we live in offers us unquote
i don't mind paying taxes etc but in the Uk we pay our taxes only to find some people who have no intention of contributing being kept for years on benefits.some people through no fault of their own need to be on benefits but we all know of someone who has been on benefits for years have no intention of working or say they are getting more in benefits and therefore why should they work.
there also seems to be the trend for lots of young girls to get pregnant get social housing and be kept.a few months ago a young girl who has done this on being told once her youngest reaches 2 years of age will have to seek employment responded with we'll i'll just keep having kids then.and therefore robbing the people who really need and deserve it the pensioners and those with serious health problems
so all our hard work and for most of us getting our kids to get off their backsides and work for their income,
our inheritance tax has to go to the who really haven't worked for it...
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Serge
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Roger O
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Reminds me of an old Italian filmmand wrote:There also seems to be the trend for lots of young girls to get pregnant get social housing and be kept.a few months ago a young girl who has done this on being told once her youngest reaches 2 years of age will have to seek employment responded with we'll i'll just keep having kids then...
Adelina (Sophia Loren) sells black-market cigarettes in Naples, is married to the unemployed Carmine (Marcello Mastroianni), and faces a jail sentence. She can avoid it as long as she's pregnant. Several years and seven children later, Carmine is exhausted, so jail looks inescapable....
I deal in Logic!
"Magic" is applied science far in advance of our current technology.
"Magic" is applied science far in advance of our current technology.
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john
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Of course I cannot speak for the two gents concerned,Serge,but you make a very good point here.Serge wrote:I wouldn't worry about 'the other' posters Mand, I reckon if you asked either of them to share a tenner with you they would both tell you tooff!
As a rule,those who make the biggest song and dance about how they give to those worse off,charity,etc ,often are those who,in fact,contribute the least.
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Santiago
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And you promisedSo to that degree Santiago is right that it's not one to get in an argument over,so after this,it will be my last posting on the question.
There was nothing insulting to anyone in mine or Ian's posts, so stop stirring, everyone. All we did was present a different view. Let's not get into personal remarks.
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john
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Yes I did.Santiago wrote:And you promisedSo to that degree Santiago is right that it's not one to get in an argument over,so after this,it will be my last posting on the question.
.
And it has been kept.
I think you'll find I've made no further comment on the rights/wrongs of IHT,since I made the promise,Jon?
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Robert Ferrieux
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from Helen
Journalist: So, tell me, Mr X........how did you become so incredibly rich?
Mr X: Well, only 8 years ago I had but one penny in my pocket. I bought an apple and sold it for 2p, making a profit of 100°/°.
The next day I invested the 2p in two apples, sold them for 2p apiece and again made a profit. I kept making a profit every day for a whole month.Then I added pears, then bananas. At the end of a year I'd accumulated a sum of £1, 500.
At the end of the following year I made another £1,500.
Then my wife's father died and left me a hundred and fifty-eight million quid.
Journalist: So, tell me, Mr X........how did you become so incredibly rich?
Mr X: Well, only 8 years ago I had but one penny in my pocket. I bought an apple and sold it for 2p, making a profit of 100°/°.
The next day I invested the 2p in two apples, sold them for 2p apiece and again made a profit. I kept making a profit every day for a whole month.Then I added pears, then bananas. At the end of a year I'd accumulated a sum of £1, 500.
At the end of the following year I made another £1,500.
Then my wife's father died and left me a hundred and fifty-eight million quid.
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Santiago
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Ah, so you speak with forked tongue, glasshopper?john wrote:Yes I did.Santiago wrote:And you promisedSo to that degree Santiago is right that it's not one to get in an argument over,so after this,it will be my last posting on the question.
.
And it has been kept.
I think you'll find I've made no further comment on the rights/wrongs of IHT,since I made the promise,Jon?
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Owens88
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A minor diversion - into economics not politics.
As house prices rise then even something 'umble' in certain parts of the country can exceed £0.5 million. (and that is before any other investments)
Many couples will have two sets of parents each with properties.
OK, people are living longer and there is some leakage into inheritance tax, but why do we not hear a lot about 'millionaires' by modest inheritances alone?
Is it because the inheritances are phased and the couple invests the money into stuff (stocks and shares) that is ephemeral based on a clique of fly-boys in the City playing games?
But. As it is all a zero-sum game where does all the increase in value end up eventually ?
As house prices rise then even something 'umble' in certain parts of the country can exceed £0.5 million. (and that is before any other investments)
Many couples will have two sets of parents each with properties.
OK, people are living longer and there is some leakage into inheritance tax, but why do we not hear a lot about 'millionaires' by modest inheritances alone?
Is it because the inheritances are phased and the couple invests the money into stuff (stocks and shares) that is ephemeral based on a clique of fly-boys in the City playing games?
But. As it is all a zero-sum game where does all the increase in value end up eventually ?
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john
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I'm not altogether sure that there has been any bickering on this thread Rose. Just two groups who are coming at a subject with different views and agendas.Rose wrote:If we got rid of:
IMHO,
That's a fair point, but,
With all due respect,
it might seem that there is a lot less bickering.
Wouldn't the forum be a lot more dull if we all agreed on everything?
What we do need to get rid of ,however, are half-truths and inaccuracies in postings.
BTW......No forked tongues here at this end at least,Santiago. Just straight,to the point comment!