Payment of Property Taxes from the U.K.

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Smiley G
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Payment of Property Taxes from the U.K.

Post by Smiley G » Thu 31 Aug 2017 10:07

Friends (resident in UK) have just received their Avis for Taxe Fonciere. They have a RIB from which they have set up a template for periodic SEPA transfers to their Tresorerie.
Their question is (which I don't know the answer to) do they replicate the spaces that appear for the avis reference or do they ignore the spaces?
A typical reference is displayed as;
17 66 ******* ** Do they quote 1766********* ?
Hope someone can help.
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martyn94
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Post by martyn94 » Thu 31 Aug 2017 12:26

I've no experience of the precise case. But in any other case I've come across (e.g. turning a RIB into an IBAN, or simply paying online by credit card), you close up the spaces. The details on the "TIP" on their bill may show the preferred format.

But why don't they just get it taken from their French bank account (surely they have one?)? It's worked for me for 25-odd years.

Smiley G
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Post by Smiley G » Thu 31 Aug 2017 13:24

Thanks for the input. I still don't have the answer except someone at the Tresorerie in Argeles once told me that the tax offices manually input payments from data from the Banque de France. The French way, may very will be the long way around, rather than a direct Banque de France/Tresorerie interface.
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martyn94
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Post by martyn94 » Thu 31 Aug 2017 14:15

Smiley G wrote:Thanks for the input. I still don't have the answer except someone at the Tresorerie in Argeles once told me that the tax offices manually input payments from data from the Banque de France. The French way, may very will be the long way around, rather than a direct Banque de France/Tresorerie interface.
I was about to post a PS saying to ignore my earlier post. I really didn't have the first idea, and still don't, what your friends (and their template) are trying to achieve: from what country, from what original currency, by what means (on line, by mail, by phone, at the Trésor, through a bank branch...). The back of their tax bill has copious details about the different ways of doing it if they can cope with the French.

As I've said, I've almost always paid by prélèvement, which is much the easiest if you have a French bank account, but I recall paying my first year down here on line, from memory through the Trésor website. However I did it, it was entirely straightforward, and worked as advertised.

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Post by Smiley G » Thu 31 Aug 2017 16:27

To clarify;
Our friends are Non-Residents who sold their second home in Spring 2016.
Paid 2016 (for 2015) Property Taxes (Fonciere & Habitation) by debit from their (now closed) French Bank Account last Autumn.
Barclays online banking have got a template in a € currency account with the RIB details for their local Tresorerie already prepared.
All they have to do is insert the payees reference in a box and send it (SEPA area)
All they want to know is the format to be used.......with or without spaces.
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martyn94
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Post by martyn94 » Thu 31 Aug 2017 17:02

Smiley G wrote:To clarify;
Our friends are Non-Residents who sold their second home in Spring 2016.
Paid 2016 (for 2015) Property Taxes (Fonciere & Habitation) by debit from their (now closed) French Bank Account last Autumn.
Barclays online banking have got a template in a € currency account with the RIB details for their local Tresorerie already prepared.
All they have to do is insert the payees reference in a box and send it (SEPA area)
All they want to know is the format to be used.......with or without spaces.
It doesn't get more intelligible. If it is 2017 taxe, it's just not due if they sold (and moved out) in spring 2016. It goes by the situation on 01/01/2017. Maybe nobody told the fisc, in which case they should do so now. But I don't know what you mean by saying that they paid in 2016 "for 2015". Any taxe foncière/taxe d'hab for 2015 was due before the end of 2015. If you mean that they haven't yet paid for being owners/in residence on 01/01/2016, their payments for 2016 are very well overdue (by ten months or more, depending on which tax) and they are liable to surcharges which may or may not appear on the Avis that you mention. But if, as you say, they paid for something in "autumn 2016", and they're the sort of people who pay bills when they get them, (or just paid by direct debit, as I now notice you've said), then they are up to date for 2016 and should (as I've said) have nothing to pay for 2017.

martyn94
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Post by martyn94 » Thu 31 Aug 2017 18:35

Just to cut to the chase: any avis d'imposition says in bold black letters what year of charge it applies to. If it says 2017, they are in the clear. They just need to persuade someone that is so.

martyn94
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Post by martyn94 » Fri 01 Sep 2017 14:08

martyn94 wrote:
Smiley G wrote:To clarify;
Our friends are Non-Residents who sold their second home in Spring 2016.
Paid 2016 (for 2015) Property Taxes (Fonciere & Habitation) by debit from their (now closed) French Bank Account last Autumn.
Barclays online banking have got a template in a € currency account with the RIB details for their local Tresorerie already prepared.
All they have to do is insert the payees reference in a box and send it (SEPA area)
All they want to know is the format to be used.......with or without spaces.
It doesn't get more intelligible. If it is 2017 taxe, it's just not due if they sold (and moved out) in spring 2016. It goes by the situation on 01/01/2017. Maybe nobody told the fisc, in which case they should do so now. But I don't know what you mean by saying that they paid in 2016 "for 2015". Any taxe foncière/taxe d'hab for 2015 was due before the end of 2015. If you mean that they haven't yet paid for being owners/in residence on 01/01/2016, their payments for 2016 are very well overdue (by ten months or more, depending on which tax) and they are liable to surcharges which may or may not appear on the Avis that you mention. But if, as you say, they paid for something in "autumn 2016", and they're the sort of people who pay bills when they get them, (or just paid by direct debit, as I now notice you've said), then they are up to date for 2016 and should (as I've said) have nothing to pay for 2017.
I've noticed, belatedly, that your friends paid by "débit" in autumn 2016. If I understand it, that can only be their taxes for 2016. So they have never been liable for 2017, because they didn't satisfy the residence/ownership conditions for this year. So they should challenge their avis: they might be stuck with a charge for late notification (if that's how it was), but they should come out ahead. Or just sue their notaire (only joking).

Allan
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Re: Payment of Property Taxes from the U.K.

Post by Allan » Fri 01 Sep 2017 15:28

Smiley G wrote:Friends (resident in UK) have just received their Avis for Taxe Fonciere. They have a RIB from which they have set up a template for periodic SEPA transfers to their Tresorerie.
Their question is (which I don't know the answer to) do they replicate the spaces that appear for the avis reference or do they ignore the spaces?
A typical reference is displayed as;
17 66 ******* ** Do they quote 1766********* ?
Hope someone can help.
Going back to the original question, the answer is that it doesn't matter.
The objective of the reference is to allow them to match the payment to a bill, every banking system that I have ever encountered strips out spaces automatically when matching references.

When I have made such payments, the return confirmation has always shown the number without the spaces, even if I put them in when quoting the reference.

But, as Martyn says, tell them to make sure that they actually owe the money before paying it.

martyn94
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Re: Payment of Property Taxes from the U.K.

Post by martyn94 » Sat 02 Sep 2017 15:09

Allan wrote:
Smiley G wrote:Friends (resident in UK) have just received their Avis for Taxe Fonciere. They have a RIB from which they have set up a template for periodic SEPA transfers to their all
Their question is (which I don't know the answer to) do they replicate the spaces that appear for the avis reference or do they ignore the spaces?
A typical reference is displayed as;
17 66 ******* ** Do they quote 1766********* ?
Hope someone can help.
Going back to the original question, the answer is that it doesn't matter.
The objective of the reference is to allow them to match the payment to a bill, every banking system that I have ever encountered strips out spaces automatically when matching references.
That's what I thought, and wrote. But it's wonderfully reassuring to have Allan agree with you.

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