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Lanark Lass
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Railway

Post by Lanark Lass » Tue 20 Feb 2018 18:07

Looks like the local rail services are under threat of closure? (L'independant today).

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Re: Railway

Post by martyn94 » Tue 20 Feb 2018 22:54

Lanark Lass wrote:Looks like the local rail services are under threat of closure? (L'independant today).
I think that they generally lay on a replacement bus service, which is not super, but better than many places have. A friend in the Auvergne got a taxi to himself last year.

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Post by Lanark Lass » Tue 20 Feb 2018 23:02

The article suggests that the rail service will disappear permanently to save money.

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Gus Morris
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Post by Gus Morris » Wed 21 Feb 2018 10:04

I can see the Perpignan - Cerbere line from my window. There are very few passenger trains and when they do go past they are almost empty. At least there is some freight traffic. The Perpignan to Villefranche line is equally under used. On the other hand the road traffic between these points is heavy and constant. Also buses are cheaper to build and run and much more flexible. In the end it's all down to economic reality.

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Post by Lanark Lass » Wed 21 Feb 2018 10:42

On a personal note, its good to be able to fly into Beziers and get a train all the way to Argeles. Flying into Perpignan is not so convenient now that the buses don't meet up in Perpignan(as happened at the old bus station).

Will there be a connection from Perpignan for the Yellow Train when the tourist season starts? I realise that the very sd events at Millas

Also in the summer if train use was encouraged there woukd be less congestion on the roads - and less pollution.

As you say,though its all down to cost have interrupted that service for now..

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Post by russell » Wed 21 Feb 2018 12:12

This map, issued by SNCF in 2015, shows that the average annual usage of the Perpignan-Villafranche line is between 1 and 10 passengers per day. The Cerbere line is between 10 and 25:
https://www.sncf-reseau.fr/sites/defaul ... R_v1-2.pdf

Perhaps a publicity campaign to encourage usage is called for.

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Post by martyn94 » Wed 21 Feb 2018 14:38

Lanark Lass wrote:The article suggests that the rail service will disappear permanently to save money.
I meant that the SNCF often/always/sometimes lays on a bus service even if their rail service is ended for good. As Gus has said, it’s a lot cheaper to run empty buses than empty trains.

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Post by martyn94 » Wed 21 Feb 2018 14:52

russell wrote:This map, issued by SNCF in 2015, shows that the average annual usage of the Perpignan-Villafranche line is between 1 and 10 passengers per day. The Cerbere line is between 10 and 25:
https://www.sncf-reseau.fr/sites/defaul ... R_v1-2.pdf

Perhaps a publicity campaign to encourage usage is called for.

Russell
So far as I can gather from today’s L’Indep, the Cerbère service seems safe pro tem.

But how much would the publicity cost (and done how?) to get the ridership up to, say, 40 a day? And who in their right mind would want to go to Cerbère anyway, by any means? Portbou might be another matter, but it is rarely possible to get back.

It’s entirely possible that the CGT will see M Macron off (and make our lives misery in the process) though I very much hope not.

I think I’m agreeing with Gus. Du jamais lu!

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Post by Richard and Sharon » Wed 28 Feb 2018 09:49

We always use the train to and from Beziers/Perpignan airports and for the occasional foray into Perpignan. Based on that experience, I doubt the published passenger numbers. Maybe they are per journey?
There are always a handful of people boarding the train at Collioure and at subsequent stations towards Perpignan, and the same from Perpignan towards Cerbere.
Considering that there are 12 departures daily, I struggle to imagine that there are less than 200 passengers per day, although I concede, it has never busier than about 1/3 full when we have travelled.
Hopefully it is as suggested, that they are posturing to encourage people to use it or lose it.

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Post by martyn94 » Wed 28 Feb 2018 17:52

Richard and Sharon wrote:We always use the train to and from Beziers/Perpignan airports and for the occasional foray into Perpignan. Based on that experience, I doubt the published passenger numbers. Maybe they are per journey?
There are always a handful of people boarding the train at Collioure and at subsequent stations towards Perpignan, and the same from Perpignan towards Cerbere.
Considering that there are 12 departures daily, I struggle to imagine that there are less than 200 passengers per day, although I concede, it has never busier than about 1/3 full when we have travelled.
Hopefully it is as suggested, that they are posturing to encourage people to use it or lose it.
The line is busy (in parts) in July and August, but empty for the rest of the year. According to Le Monde,â€￾sources close to M Macronâ€￾ have said that the “petites lignesâ€￾ will not be closed. I didn’t bother to click through to the story: you might want to.

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Post by Lanark Lass » Fri 16 Mar 2018 11:07

Looks like SNCF are now planning 36 days of rolling strikes (2 days strike 3 days work)to protect their jobs commencing on 3rd April.

Think carefully if travelling via Carcassonne/Beziers or from further north.

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Post by martyn94 » Fri 16 Mar 2018 15:12

Lanark Lass wrote:Looks like SNCF are now planning 36 days of rolling strikes (2 days strike 3 days work)to protect their jobs commencing on 3rd April.

Think carefully if travelling via Carcassonne/Beziers or from further north.
I don’t imagine that the SNCF have planned it, though they, and M Macron, must have seen it coming. It’s their unions that are laying it on. And it’s not (yet) to protect their jobs, just to protect their distinct (and very favourable) legal status as “cheminotsâ€￾.

It will be interesting to see whether M Macron can push through some (pretty minor) reforms that everyone previously has bottled out of.

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Post by Lanark Lass » Sat 17 Mar 2018 13:39

I believe M. Macron is also planning to privatise S.N.C.F. by decree. This means France will have a wondreful unconnected system like that of the U.K.

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Post by martyn94 » Sat 17 Mar 2018 14:47

Lanark Lass wrote:I believe M. Macron is also planning to privatise S.N.C.F. by decree. This means France will have a wondreful unconnected system like that of the U.K.
He is planning to change its legal structure from something sui generis, and a bit weird, to that of an ordinary company. I don’t believe that there is any proposition (yet) that the state shouldn’t continue to own all the shares. Who would buy them even if they could?

It’s partly a response to EU law which has required (for years now) that services should become open to competition, to varying degrees over varying timescales.

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Post by martyn94 » Sat 17 Mar 2018 15:14

Lanark Lass wrote:I believe M. Macron is also planning to privatise S.N.C.F. by decree. This means France will have a unconnected system like that of the U.K.
A couple of years ago I got what I think was then, and possibly still is, the only “privatisedâ€￾ service terminating in France - a night sleeper between Paris Bercy and Venice run by Thello.

It was entirely OK, for a night sleeper, and cheap. And would no longer exist if Thello hadn’t stepped up. And it took my bike.

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Post by Kate » Sat 17 Mar 2018 19:57


rhys
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even the poorly used lines assist the network as a whole

Post by rhys » Thu 05 Apr 2018 17:29

They need to think much more rigorously about closing lines just because they are not much used.
For a start : the infrastructure of rails and stations is already there so it's just a matter of keeping them going ~is it really that expensive to do so ?

But more radically : the fact of the small lines existing CAN be a reason for people taking a much longer journey : eg I often point out to people who are visiting Argelès from England that the train is overlooked, compared to Ryanair et al - but it is possible to set off from London at breakfast time and get to Argelès in plenty of time for dinner ( with just a change of platform at Lille in summer months ~no need for the nightmare change of stations on the Paris metro ).

And it's a much more relaxed journey than one involving faffing around at airports.
NOW ~ if there were no train from Perpignan to complete the journey it might make more sense after all to fly to Perpignan rather than get the train all the way down the country.............Have they thought about that ??

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Post by Lanark Lass » Thu 05 Apr 2018 21:05

Rhys,

The Lille interchange doesn't exist anymore,unfortunately. you have to go into Paris and taxi or metro between stations.

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Re: even the poorly used lines assist the network as a whole

Post by martyn94 » Fri 06 Apr 2018 01:31

rhys wrote:They need to think much more rigorously about closing lines just because they are not much used.
For a start : the infrastructure of rails and stations is already there so it's just a matter of keeping them going ~is it really that expensive to do so ?

But more radically : the fact of the small lines existing CAN be a reason for people taking a much longer journey : eg I often point out to people who are visiting Argelès from England that the train is overlooked, compared to Ryanair et al - but it is possible to set off from London at breakfast time and get to Argelès in plenty of time for dinner ( with just a change of platform at Lille in summer months ~no need for the nightmare change of stations on the Paris metro ).

And it's a much more relaxed journey than one involving faffing around at airports.
NOW ~ if there were no train from Perpignan to complete the journey it might make more sense after all to fly to Perpignan rather than get the train all the way down the country.............Have they thought about that ??
The short answer is that of course they have thought about that. But you only have to change trains, at this time of year, to see how little extra traffic the petites lignes generate for the TGV. It suits me very well, as do similar lines elsewhere. But there are many millions of French taxpayers on the SMIC paying tax to subsidize trains that they don’t have access to, or wouldn’t use even if they could. I don’t see why they should pay to give plump old geezers like me a more relaxed journey.

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Post by SteveB » Sat 07 Apr 2018 11:45

[quote="Lanark Lass"]Rhys,

The Lille interchange doesn't exist anymore,unfortunately. you have to go into Paris and taxi or metro between stations.[/quote]

Actually you can still go via Lille, but have to change again at Montpellier or Valence to get to Perpignan. Also the connection in Paris is reasonably straightforward once you get used to it - 2 stops on the RER, much quicker than either the Metro or taxi.

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Post by sue and paul » Sat 07 Apr 2018 13:00

From Montpellier you can get the train à €1 to all stops to Cerbere. You have to book 21 days in advance on dedicated website

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Post by martyn94 » Sat 07 Apr 2018 15:11

SteveB wrote:
Lanark Lass wrote:Rhys,

The Lille interchange doesn't exist anymore,unfortunately. you have to go into Paris and taxi or metro between stations.
Actually you can still go via Lille, but have to change again at Montpellier or Valence to get to Perpignan. Also the connection in Paris is reasonably straightforward once you get used to it - 2 stops on the RER, much quicker than either the Metro or taxi.
If you do your research on voyages-sncf, you will often be offered a change at Montpellier (going to Port-Vendres in my case) even coming from Paris: sometimes because the TGV terminates at Montpellier, but usually because you’d be getting the same TER to PV wherever you changed. You are just swapping a short connection at Montpellier, and a slightly lower fare, for a longer wait at Perpignan. A couple of times my TGV has been late at Montpellier (usually someone throwing themselves under the train) so that I would have missed my connection there. So I stayed on the TGV to make my connection at Perpignan: the onboard staff on the TGV made no problems.

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Post by rhys » Mon 09 Apr 2018 09:08

Lanark Lass wrote:Rhys,

The Lille interchange doesn't exist anymore,unfortunately. you have to go into Paris and taxi or metro between stations.

Is that the case even in high summer ? It was a seasonal thing when I last used it, admittedly some years ago.

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