IDENTITY -Help!!!
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edann42
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IDENTITY -Help!!!
For two years we've been living near the Spanish border and going backwards and forwards into Spain, with impunity!
This week, French friends of ours mentioned that we should always carry identity whenever we go to Spain !!! Is there not an 'Open Border' arrangement with the Spanish?? If not, can anyone tell me what identity papers (apart from passports) we should be carrying and if its something we have to obtain in France!? (Don't want to leave passports in the car!!)
Should we be carrying identity when we are 'out and about' in France???
We are fully in the French system!!!
Thanks!
This week, French friends of ours mentioned that we should always carry identity whenever we go to Spain !!! Is there not an 'Open Border' arrangement with the Spanish?? If not, can anyone tell me what identity papers (apart from passports) we should be carrying and if its something we have to obtain in France!? (Don't want to leave passports in the car!!)
Should we be carrying identity when we are 'out and about' in France???
We are fully in the French system!!!
Thanks!
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thumbelina
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Hi edann. Good to hear from you! Hope you are well? 
I always carry my passport with me since the day my brother was turned back from the border as he had no identity papers with him! (he, too, believed it was an open border!)
My understanding is that it is indeed an open border but that you have to be able to produce a valid identity card or passport if asked to do so.
With regard to the rest of the time, my partner (French) will not even nip to the corner shop without his identity card in his pocket. I believe that, in France, you are obliged to carry your carte d'identite with you at all times.
I always carry my passport with me since the day my brother was turned back from the border as he had no identity papers with him! (he, too, believed it was an open border!)
My understanding is that it is indeed an open border but that you have to be able to produce a valid identity card or passport if asked to do so.
With regard to the rest of the time, my partner (French) will not even nip to the corner shop without his identity card in his pocket. I believe that, in France, you are obliged to carry your carte d'identite with you at all times.
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john
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Always a difficult one this. I've had a number of "frank discussions" with those in semi-authority in France re ID,and they just cannot countenance the fact that in the UK there is no such thing as an ID card. It just does not register on their radar,though of course it is by no means unknown for a Frenchman to be unable to understand any system that is in variance with that of "La France" !!
I've never taken my passport to Spain other than when intending to stay in a hotel there (where,for some obscure reason, it's compulsory). Thieving out of cars is so rife there,that I refuse to take such a vital document in my car/on my person,unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary. But I do always have my Photo UK driving licence with me,and,in practice,this has always been sufficient ID in the end.
I've never taken my passport to Spain other than when intending to stay in a hotel there (where,for some obscure reason, it's compulsory). Thieving out of cars is so rife there,that I refuse to take such a vital document in my car/on my person,unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary. But I do always have my Photo UK driving licence with me,and,in practice,this has always been sufficient ID in the end.
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blackduff
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Although we have a Shwangen (sp?) agreement, this does not mean we do not identification. For me, not being part of the EU, I have to bring my passport.
For French, I think that they're required to show their French ID.
For the most, I use my French ID card, which seems to work fine.
For many years I have a copy of my passport and my French ID card. They are reduced and then plasticized. The ID card is great, since it now fits into my wallet. I often carry the duplicate passport within Spain since I used a similar all of the time I lived in Spain.
The true answer would be within the Schwangen agreements and rules.
Blackduff
For French, I think that they're required to show their French ID.
For the most, I use my French ID card, which seems to work fine.
For many years I have a copy of my passport and my French ID card. They are reduced and then plasticized. The ID card is great, since it now fits into my wallet. I often carry the duplicate passport within Spain since I used a similar all of the time I lived in Spain.
The true answer would be within the Schwangen agreements and rules.
Blackduff
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opas
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Oh boy here we go!
Last week we went to the Prefecture in Perpignan to try and get Eldest an Identity card of some description.
The guy there insisted she should carry her passport, we pressed the point that this was OTT for a visit to the cinema , a little expensive if she should have her bag nicked etc...
He ( the guy on said reception) said that as UK does not have an ID card then we would not be Prioritaire (would not expect to be) and that if we insisted she should have Photo ID then we should go to our Maires office. Please now refere to the Public website, which says you should apply in person with at least one parent......so even though I had all the relevent paperwork, Passport, Parent TDS , paper to declare she is registered in school, recent bill, you name it we had it......
Off to Maires office day after and the scretaire was astounded that she had to do the paperwork...even though there is no form to complete.
we shall now wait and see, but according to school she has to have photo ID to take her exams and I am sorry but there is no way i am going to let a 15 year old girl loose with a little book that recently cost me best part of 100 euros , so I am awaiting on this other photo ID.
As for us( adults) we travel to spain with our TDSm we can even check in at Ryanair with it..........but we cannot get past the gate without a passport!
Last week we went to the Prefecture in Perpignan to try and get Eldest an Identity card of some description.
The guy there insisted she should carry her passport, we pressed the point that this was OTT for a visit to the cinema , a little expensive if she should have her bag nicked etc...
He ( the guy on said reception) said that as UK does not have an ID card then we would not be Prioritaire (would not expect to be) and that if we insisted she should have Photo ID then we should go to our Maires office. Please now refere to the Public website, which says you should apply in person with at least one parent......so even though I had all the relevent paperwork, Passport, Parent TDS , paper to declare she is registered in school, recent bill, you name it we had it......
Off to Maires office day after and the scretaire was astounded that she had to do the paperwork...even though there is no form to complete.
we shall now wait and see, but according to school she has to have photo ID to take her exams and I am sorry but there is no way i am going to let a 15 year old girl loose with a little book that recently cost me best part of 100 euros , so I am awaiting on this other photo ID.
As for us( adults) we travel to spain with our TDSm we can even check in at Ryanair with it..........but we cannot get past the gate without a passport!
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Webdoc
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We dropped a friend off at Girona last year, and got stopped at the border by the French border guard. He was rather put out to say the least that we didn't have our passports with us, and we were very apologetic. Interestingly he didn't say "you MUST have one with you" but instead said "if I went to England you wouldn't let me in without one".
I wonder whether we could pass off a photo-driving-licence as a UK Identity Card?
I wonder whether we could pass off a photo-driving-licence as a UK Identity Card?
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Webdoc
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In good old Franco's time, each Hotel had to provide the Police with a list of who was staying each night - the original Big Brother. It's a hangover from that.john wrote:I've never taken my passport to Spain other than when intending to stay in a hotel there (where,for some obscure reason, it's compulsory).
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sue and paul
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We went to Chateau de Peyrepertuse recently, and had to hand over one of our passports as security against the hire of a crummy handset for the audio guide. I argued that it was rather a high demand, and did she have a safe to keep it in, and anyway what would I want with the poxy handset...???All to no avail. It's a jolly good job the place wasn't besieged while we were there. 
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Roger O
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John, sorry but EVERY European country issues ID cards except the UK and everyone is used to carry them - NO BIG DEAL!! It's only the Brits who are completely paranoid on this subject!john wrote:Always a difficult one this. I've had a number of "frank discussions" with those in semi-authority in France re ID,and they just cannot countenance the fact that in the UK there is no such thing as an ID card. It just does not register on their radar,though of course it is by no means unknown for a Frenchman to be unable to understand any system that is in variance with that of "La France" !!
Having said that I've written in all kinds of places the question "Why, as the whole EU is issued with national ID cards, cannot the UK at very least issue ID cards to expats permanentrly living in the EU - even on a voluntary basis if it must be so - because I would be so happy to have one." Today, for example, I was at the Service des Armes in the Carcassonne prefecture and the guy asked me for ID - upon which I produced my French driving licence. Next question - Don't you have a British ID card? Ha Ha Ha!!! I refuse to carry my passport about within France or to cross to Spain - the French licence does the job. Passports are for travel to faraway places not on home ground.
and.. yes.. I am a more than a little "rabid" on this subject - apparently in the opposite direction to most Brits!!!
I deal in Logic!
"Magic" is applied science far in advance of our current technology.
"Magic" is applied science far in advance of our current technology.
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Webdoc
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The reason the vast majority of UK citizens are against Identity Cards, and therefore a Government-controlled database containing all our details, is because we wish to avoid the Big Brother opportunities this offers. If 1984 had been written in French then French Nationals might have had a different view.
Oh dear - there's the centralised NHS registration database, isn't there?
Don't get me started....................
Oh dear - there's the centralised NHS registration database, isn't there?
Don't get me started....................
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Roger O
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Serge
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Chris
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With respect; the French ID card is exactly that - I will have no objection to carrying one in the future when I'm a full timer.
The proposed British ID card is entirely different :It will have to be produced whenever any sort of transaction is undertaken (eventually even a minor transaction.) An electronic audit trail of all these transactions will be kept on a massive database administered by badly paid staff who will be susceptible to bribery, blackmail or intimidation. Therefore, not only the authorities but criminals such as Romanian kidnap gangs will be able to obtain the following information, for example:
- That I took a number 45 bus from X to Y on 18/05/2009 at 09.07 and paid £0.60, and that also on the same bus were A , B and C all of whom took a flight to Karachi on 14/03/2009 where they are suspected of attending a terrorist training camp.............
-That my 14 year old daughter, who usually buys her feminine hygiene products at Tescos in Kentish Town on or around the third wednesday of each month, usually catches the 08.10 bus from X stop to school, but walks to the swimming pool at Y on tuesday evenings at about 16.20 and sometimes buys a ticket costing £1.20 on her own.......
It is because every personal detail will be kept on this sinister and insecure database that the British are so opposed to ID cards.
All the state has to do to gain public acceptance is to abandon the database and make them genuine ID cards instead of slave badges / tracking devices.
The proposed British ID card is entirely different :It will have to be produced whenever any sort of transaction is undertaken (eventually even a minor transaction.) An electronic audit trail of all these transactions will be kept on a massive database administered by badly paid staff who will be susceptible to bribery, blackmail or intimidation. Therefore, not only the authorities but criminals such as Romanian kidnap gangs will be able to obtain the following information, for example:
- That I took a number 45 bus from X to Y on 18/05/2009 at 09.07 and paid £0.60, and that also on the same bus were A , B and C all of whom took a flight to Karachi on 14/03/2009 where they are suspected of attending a terrorist training camp.............
-That my 14 year old daughter, who usually buys her feminine hygiene products at Tescos in Kentish Town on or around the third wednesday of each month, usually catches the 08.10 bus from X stop to school, but walks to the swimming pool at Y on tuesday evenings at about 16.20 and sometimes buys a ticket costing £1.20 on her own.......
It is because every personal detail will be kept on this sinister and insecure database that the British are so opposed to ID cards.
All the state has to do to gain public acceptance is to abandon the database and make them genuine ID cards instead of slave badges / tracking devices.
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Roger O
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Well, if you're serious Chris - I can only say thank God I left the place in 1970 and never go back! End of story!! No wonder my sister's always ranting on about the big brother society - keep it!!
I mean Switzerland is known as the only democratic police state - but at least it is just that - it's totally democratic and the people police themselves by plebiscite.
At least if France goes over the boundary (which I can't believe it will ever do) I can always go back to live in Switzerland.
I mean Switzerland is known as the only democratic police state - but at least it is just that - it's totally democratic and the people police themselves by plebiscite.
At least if France goes over the boundary (which I can't believe it will ever do) I can always go back to live in Switzerland.
I deal in Logic!
"Magic" is applied science far in advance of our current technology.
"Magic" is applied science far in advance of our current technology.
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Owens88
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Re: IDENTITY -Help!!!
To my mind borders are borders for a reason. Just because we can drive there doesn't change it. Would you drive into Germany with no passport ?edann42 wrote:For two years we've been living near the Spanish border and going backwards and forwards into Spain, with impunity!
Thanks!
I don't mean to be sarcy, merely amazed.
John
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Owens88
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[quote="Webdoc"]The reason the vast majority of UK citizens are against ...a Government-controlled database containing all our details, quote]
editted by me to make a point, and apologies to webdoc if I am out of order.
IMHO
there is a difference betwen the concept of a national database and the general expections of the likely failings.
Us in Britland are acutely aware of the failings. I am not so sure that we are all against the concept.
Personally I could see general acceptance of an id (rfid, barcode...) being applied at birth registration.
editted by me to make a point, and apologies to webdoc if I am out of order.
IMHO
there is a difference betwen the concept of a national database and the general expections of the likely failings.
Us in Britland are acutely aware of the failings. I am not so sure that we are all against the concept.
Personally I could see general acceptance of an id (rfid, barcode...) being applied at birth registration.
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opas
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Serge re read the post........ I have a TDS which I use for ID, it is the girls who need ID.Serge wrote:Opas,
You could post your passport photo on here and then if you had occasion to have to produce some ID you could just refer them to this site.
We could probably give them a character reference as well ..................
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carol sheridan
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I have to endorse everything Chris says - the British Government have been notorious in recent years for the casual way in which even senior staff have left very confidential papers lying around on trians, computers lost in taxis, etc. The companies awarded contracts for IT projects have failed miserably to deliver in several instances, but still continue to get contracts? Why? And how many government officials involved in awarding such contracts re-appear after they retire on the board of the self-same companies? I don't read Private Eye for nothing, you kow!
In the last ten years they have tried to collect information on virtually everything everyone in Britian does or even says - they now want to keep a database logging ALL telephone calls and even e-mails.
I know from experience that so-called ' confidential' information is frequently examined by nosy neighbours, ex-partners, sold to debt-collecting agencies and so on. No, I wouldn't have dreamt of inventing an excuse to look up my ex-husband's tax return!
The thought of having all my medical history available to thousands of NHS staff and others is frightening. How long before insurance companies use it to discriminate, or blackmailers find it a useful resource?
In the last ten years they have tried to collect information on virtually everything everyone in Britian does or even says - they now want to keep a database logging ALL telephone calls and even e-mails.
I know from experience that so-called ' confidential' information is frequently examined by nosy neighbours, ex-partners, sold to debt-collecting agencies and so on. No, I wouldn't have dreamt of inventing an excuse to look up my ex-husband's tax return!
The thought of having all my medical history available to thousands of NHS staff and others is frightening. How long before insurance companies use it to discriminate, or blackmailers find it a useful resource?
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Roger O
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carol sheridan
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opas
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Robert Ferrieux
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Re: IDENTITY -Help!!!
[quote="Owens88"] Would you drive into Germany with no passport ?
Helen is aghast:
Not ******** likely! Not even with a passport.
Helen is aghast:
Not ******** likely! Not even with a passport.
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Rose
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I have to admit that I keep my passport in my bag whenever I go out in France or drive to Spain. The reason I do so, is in case I have an accident when I am driving and get taken to hospital. With the 2 contact telephone numbers in the back I know that my husband or sister-in-law could be contacted quickly.